# Star Trek II, Wrath of Khan question re: ending **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 15, 2014, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-ii-wrath-of-khan-question-re-ending/686182 "2014-04-15T15:30:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![PSXer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/48db29/32.png) [@PSXer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PSXer)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-ii-wrath-of-khan-question-re-ending/686182/61 "2014-04-16T18:52:18Z")
Hey how about some spoiler warnings please? Some of us haven’t read Moby Dick yet ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-ii-wrath-of-khan-question-re-ending/686182/62 "2014-04-16T19:19:37Z")
> [@PSXer](#): > > Hey how about some spoiler warnings please? > > Some of us haven’t read Moby Dick yet In the end, Ishmael gets Ahab and Moby to reconcile through the power of love, and Ahab dedicates himself to earning a fortune so he can catch up on all his delinquent child support. Ishmael and Queegqueg adopt one of the whale-babies. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-ii-wrath-of-khan-question-re-ending/686182/63 "2014-04-16T19:29:03Z")
Starbuck returns from the dead as well, and leads the Pequod to the legendary lost 13th colony, Georgia. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-ii-wrath-of-khan-question-re-ending/686182/64 "2014-04-16T19:30:54Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Kirk isn’t even metaphorically impotent during the Khan scream. He’s playing Khan. He wants Khan thinking that he, Khan, has _definitively_ defeated him, Kirk, so Khan won’t bother chasing after _Enterprise right away._ I’ve never bought this interpretation and don’t see how the movie is improved by it. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-ii-wrath-of-khan-question-re-ending/686182/65 "2014-04-16T19:36:42Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > Starbuck returns from the dead as well, and leads the Pequod to the legendary lost 13th colony, Georgia. I had forgotten that part! But the legendary 13th colony was COLCHIS, as MOBY DICK is a retelling of JASON & THE ARGONAUTS. The whale is a reinterpretation of Medea. > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’ve never bought this interpretation and don’t see how the movie is improved by it. It’s the only way to make sense of Kirk’s actions. He knows the Enterprise isn’t nearly as crippled as Khan thinks she is, and he wants Khan to keep underestimating her as long as possible. If he’d just blown of being marooned, Khan might have realized something was up and been less lackadasical in tracking the ship sdown. Thus, in Kirk’s estimation, it was time for some overacting. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-ii-wrath-of-khan-question-re-ending/686182/66 "2014-04-16T19:37:23Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > Starbuck returns from the dead as well, and leads the Pequod to the legendary lost 13th colony, Georgia. I can’t decide whether to accuse you of reading [Classics Illustrated](https://www.mycomicshop.com/search?TID=394961), or just make a note not to buy my term paper from you. ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-ii-wrath-of-khan-question-re-ending/686182/67 "2014-04-16T19:40:44Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’ve never bought this interpretation and don’t see how the movie is improved by it. I don’t see how any other interpretation is possible. At the time he did the infamous scream, he already knew the Enterprise would be operational and that he was going to be rescued within hours. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-ii-wrath-of-khan-question-re-ending/686182/68 "2014-04-16T19:52:58Z")
We’ll have to agree to disagree, then. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-ii-wrath-of-khan-question-re-ending/686182/69 "2014-04-16T19:59:15Z")
> [@OneCentStamp](#): > > I don’t see how any other interpretation is possible. At the time he did the infamous scream, he already knew the Enterprise would be operational and that he was going to be rescued within hours. I agree, he was leading Kahn into a False Sense of Security. Sort of like crushing his kidneys with a damping rod or what ever he pulled out of the engine room panel. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-ii-wrath-of-khan-question-re-ending/686182/70 "2014-04-16T20:30:19Z")
Well, Kirk had also just watched a fellow Starfleet officer kill himself and a parasite ooze out of Chekov’s ear, and had over a hundred dead on the Enterprise (including the nephew of one of his best friends) so I think he would have been perfectly happy to have Khan beam down and go mano a mano with him as well. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-ii-wrath-of-khan-question-re-ending/686182/71 "2014-04-16T20:30:47Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > Starbuck returns from the dead as well, and leads the Pequod to the legendary lost 13th colony, Georgia. Of course. Everybody’s heard of the Lost City of Atlanta. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-ii-wrath-of-khan-question-re-ending/686182/72 "2014-04-16T20:39:49Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Of course. Everybody’s heard of the Lost City of Atlanta. [Donovan]All Hail Atlanta![Donovan] ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-ii-wrath-of-khan-question-re-ending/686182/73 "2014-04-16T20:51:31Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > …and had over a\*\* hundred dead\*\* on the Enterprise (including the nephew of one of his best friends) … Not to get all nitpicky (well, that’s not entirely true. This is the SD-it’s ALL about the nitpicky) but where did you get the hundreds figure? As far as I can tell from the movie dialog, only Peter Preston died. Why Scotty carried him to the bridge, like a cat bringing home a dead bird, rather than take him directly to sickbay, is a question for another time. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-ii-wrath-of-khan-question-re-ending/686182/74 "2014-04-16T21:11:06Z")
I can’t find the Enterprise losses in Wrath of Khan. Does anyone know? I would think they were substantial, given the hits she took. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-ii-wrath-of-khan-question-re-ending/686182/75 "2014-04-16T21:24:28Z")
> [@PSXer](#): > > Hey how about some spoiler warnings please? > > Some of us haven’t read Moby Dick yet The movie version is available free at Pornhub, ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-ii-wrath-of-khan-question-re-ending/686182/76 "2014-04-16T22:10:54Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I can’t find the Enterprise losses in Wrath of Khan. > Does anyone know? I would think they were substantial, given the hits she took. There were dozens of serious injuries, but aside from Spock and Peter Preston, I don’t recall any actual deaths being described or depicted. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-ii-wrath-of-khan-question-re-ending/686182/77 "2014-04-16T22:21:21Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I can’t find the Enterprise losses in Wrath of Khan. > Does anyone know? I would think they were substantial, given the hits she took. But the ship was on a training mission, so probably not at full complement. Also, Reliant fired on Enterprise specifically to incapacitate and disarm. Khan strikes me as the kind of guy who would have wanted to do his killin’ [del]before breakfast[/del] in person. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-ii-wrath-of-khan-question-re-ending/686182/78 "2014-04-16T23:34:48Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > Ok the whole final scene is online [here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zDexduEqeQ). …good gosh I had forgotten how brilliant that movie was. The best spacebattle put to film, IMHO, and TWOK was an incredibly tightly plotted, fantastic movie with wonderful character arcs with a powerful, emotional finish. Unfortunately I clicked on [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nv65AoK0zmQ) (SPOILERS for the latest “Star Trek” movie that I haven’t seen) immediately afterwards and felt slightly ill. Not the same thing at all. As an aside: I used to play my mate on the computer game [Homeworld](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeworld). Like Kahn he used to think in two dimensions. Inspired by the Mutara Nebula Battle I came up with a strategy that beat him. Every. Single. Time. I’d start with swarms of harassing parties hitting him from all sides from a single plane that he would eliminate pretty smartly. While he was doing that I was building up firstly a strong wall of defence, then once that was built I started gathering forces and sending them immediately below my base. When it came time to take him out: I’d send a largish diversion force straight down the middle, while sending my main force parallel to the diversion force towards his base: like a submarine underneath a destroyer. He would immediately commit all his forces to taking out the diversion force, and when he did I’d angle my forces upwards and just destroy him in a couple of minutes. It was a beautiful thing. I miss that game. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-ii-wrath-of-khan-question-re-ending/686182/79 "2014-04-17T00:05:49Z")
How much radiation would someone have to absorb to become incapacitated or killed that quickly? Wouldn’t it be more being burned than being poisoned? ---
**Author:** ![Grestarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grestarian/32/3227_2.png) [@Grestarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grestarian)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-ii-wrath-of-khan-question-re-ending/686182/80 "2014-04-17T02:25:50Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Thus, in Kirk’s estimation, it was time for some overacting. Fer Deckard’s sakes! They intentionally put that in the script? Shatner playing Kirk trying to overact? It’s a miracle the cameras survived! –G! I bet the key grips were wearing red shirts anyway. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-ii-wrath-of-khan-question-re-ending/686182.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-ii-wrath-of-khan-question-re-ending/686182.md?page=5)