# Star Trek Into Darkness Seen it thread. Spoilers to follow **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 16, 2013, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528 "2013-05-16T17:16:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![stoplight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@stoplight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stoplight)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2013, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/261 "2013-06-09T01:12:53Z")
In part what makes all the Star Trek shows and movies work is buying in to all the bullshit they spew. I have been on hook line and sinker for a long time so to get me off the Enterprise they really got to do something idiotic. Spock’s radiated errr I a mean Kirk’s radiated death scene had me in the transporter room ready to beam off to never never land, almost… ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2013, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/262 "2013-06-09T05:15:19Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Spock: [looks at her] You, Kirk, McCoy… you all wish to see Vulcan passion? Let me show you what Vulcan passion looks like. [picks up steel bar, draws back, grits teeth in cruel smile, in slow motion brings a full-strength blow, his entire body behind it, down on Khan. Khan’s eyes widen - he’s about to be killed, raises a quivering hand in a futile defensive attempt. Uhura shoots Spock with her phaser, holds the trigger down for four or five seconds before Spock succumbs to the stun, screaming in fury the entire time. Spock collapses across Khan, both men unconscious] I like your final scene. The question is not, if the movie sucked donkey dick. But did it suck it well? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2013, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/263 "2013-06-09T05:47:19Z")
Well, if donkey shows are known for their lens flaring, I guess so. As an incidental note, I just got back from _Iron Man 3_ (I tend to see these movies several weeks after release - smaller crowds) and I thought of a slight tweak to the post-credits scene: Tony Stark has been talking the whole time to Doctor Bruce Banner, who has dozed off, tries to tell Stark he’s “not that kind of doctor”. Stark starts to mouth off to him, getting more and more smart-assed until Banner loses patience, angrily snaps “Shut the hell up!” with his face momentarily showing a flash of green. Stark opens his mouth to reply, but hesitates. Someone has _finally_ shut him up. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/265 "2013-06-17T17:30:57Z")
Finally saw it, and liked it overall - I’d give it a B+. Great action sequences, esp. zooming from one ship to the other in spacesuits, with Kirk’s faceplate starting to break. Too bad the Prime Directive was dismissed so offhandedly (consistent with TOS, I suppose) after the opening sequence. The Khan reinvention was OK (and a clever twist to have Spock, not Kirk, shout “Khaaaaaaan!”). I like the actors playing Kirk and his senior officers; the actor playing Spock still seems too baby-faced, though. Glad to have another Nimoy cameo. Good to see Klingons again, although they turned out to be pretty easy to beat after all (the Worf syndrome all over again). Nice touch to have the shattered Praxis moon, too. I could do without Starfleet’s militarized uniforms (esp. those SS-style hats). Given Adm. Marcus’s plans, David Marcus’s warnings of “the military” (Starfleet) in STII: TWOK seemed apt. I still wish the _Enterprise_’s Engineering deck didn’t look like an oil refinery. Biggest groaner: the _Enterprise_ and Marcus’s big bad starship are, it appears, just beyond the Moon as they fight. When damaged, of course, the _Enterprise_ doesn’t just stay there in space, but plunges out of control towards the Earth! Um, orbital mechanics, anyone…? I admit I didn’t mind the lens flares. I certainly noticed them, but I didn’t mind them. ---
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/266 "2013-06-17T17:55:00Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I still wish the _Enterprise_’s Engineering deck didn’t look like an oil refinery. Actually it looks like the [National Ignition Facility](https://www.llnl.gov/news/newsreleases/2013/May/NR-13-05-05.html) (because that’s what it was). ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/267 "2013-06-17T20:37:30Z")
> [@Cyros](#): > > Actually it looks like the [National Ignition Facility](https://www.llnl.gov/news/newsreleases/2013/May/NR-13-05-05.html) (because that’s what it was). part of it was in a Budweiser factory, as was in the 2009 film. ---
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/268 "2013-06-17T22:14:39Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’ve mulled it over and I’ll read the thread only after posting… While I don’t want to over-defend the film, I have to say that a lot of these criticisms are either nit-picks over continuity with ST canon or the continuity liberties taken by any action movie. Transports only work “in the nick of time” because it sets up an exciting conflict, and the whole thing was handled by a scrap of dialogue, hardly an “absurd length”. The Spock-Nimoy character doesn’t want to reveal knowledge about the future because it would take all the air out of potential future drama; the audience enjoys these callbacks to TOS, but it wouldn’t make for much of a film if, say, Spock-Nimoy revealed to Kirk “Hey, you know that Carol Marcus newbie on your ship? You’ll have a son with her and they will develop the Genesis bomb.” And who worries about the precision of 8-digit coordinates? That sort of gloss is _de rigeur_ for ST and just about any action-movie franchise. I also don’t worry about whether or not it makes sense to “invert the tetrion field” or “rotate the warp core crystal” to avert whatever crisis is imminent; these are macguffins used to move the dramatic plot along and get the characters where they need to be for the upcoming climax. Still, I agree with a few of your points, most particularly with Kirk’s death and resurrection. The Tribble scene telegraphed that someone would die and be magically brought back to life. I guess we were supposed to be surprised that this time it was Kirk instead of Spock who made the sacrifice, but this entire part of the plot felt ham-fisted, and I laughed as well at the absurdity of it. Yes, the TOS movies eventually brought Spock back from the dead, but that required a whole other (bad) movie to get to that point. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/269 "2013-06-18T02:05:31Z")
I liked the movie; I thought it was a fun ride. The only thing that bothered me, oddly, was the call from New!Spock to Old!Spock. Not so much the call, but the fact that he made it from the bridge in full view and hearing of the entire bridge crew. Maybe I missed something, since I only saw the first movie on TV, but wasn’t Old!Spock’s identity as a man from a different future timeline supposed to be a _secret_? ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/270 "2013-06-18T03:13:34Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Biggest groaner: the _Enterprise_ and Marcus’s big bad starship are, it appears, just beyond the Moon as they fight. When damaged, of course, the _Enterprise_ doesn’t just stay there in space, but plunges out of control towards the Earth! Um, orbital mechanics, anyone…? Yes did you notice both the Enterprise and the Killerprise fell straight down toward San Francisco? Apparently in the future the Earth doesn’t rotate… ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/271 "2013-06-18T04:18:57Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Yes did you notice both the Enterprise and the Killerprise fell straight down toward San Francisco? > Apparently in the future the Earth doesn’t rotate… Is it just me, or is it always San Francisco and Star Fleet command that gets to be the target? They were the target in STIV, too. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/272 "2013-06-18T04:53:44Z")
Tony Bennett is very popular a couple of centuries from now? ---
**Author:** ![D-bear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@D-bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D-bear)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/273 "2013-06-18T07:40:27Z")
To all the haters up thread… Bill Shatner said it best. Get A Life! It was a Pop Corn action adventure pic. I was thrilled that it was a total fan-wank. Some one HAD to scream KHAAAAAN! I watched TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT, in every incarnation. This was what _ **I** _ wanted to see. Those of you who play dress-up and “live” in that universe need to just move out of mom and dad’s basement, and try kissing a girl. It’s entertainment. (It’s not real life. It did NOT really happen, and it’s not re-happening in an unfavorable way.) It’s just make believe, enjoy it for what it’s worth. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/274 "2013-06-18T07:41:20Z")
Yes, those of us with obscure nerdy criticisms like “the plot doesn’t make sense” should just get a life. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/275 "2013-06-18T08:30:13Z")
I saw it last night, and I liked it. Cumberbatch had me buying into the whole “man done wrong, a single tear trickles down his face” thing. Pegg was awesome. Overall, had a good time. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/276 "2013-06-18T10:00:34Z")
> [@CJJ](#): > > While I don’t want to over-defend the film, I have to say that a lot of these criticisms are either nit-picks over continuity with ST canon or the continuity liberties taken by any action movie. Well, it _is_ possible to make an action movie that does not gleefully violate its own internal rules. I’m somewhat disappointed that a _Star Trek_ property couldn’t manage as coherent a plotline as, say, the 1999 version of _The Mummy_. I don’t care if the movie was inconsistent with some TOS episode, even on the issue of Vulcans being unable to lie. It’s that the concept itself makes no sense - they _cannot_ lie? As in, physically unable? I can understand if they prefer not to lie, and/or consider lies to be unethical, but unless a Vulcan telling a lie cause spontaneous pants-combustion… Anyway, I’d be happy to ignore existing canon, but the film-makers are obviously reluctant to do so, hence another Leonard Nimoy appearance, which took me out of the movie completely because _I_ knew that Khan was not the most dangerous opponent the original-canon _Enterprise_ ever faced, but it clear that whoever wrote Nimoy’s dialog either didn’t, didn’t expect the audience to know, or simply didn’t care what the audience knew. This movie was about Khan, therefore Khan is, was, and always will be the most dangerous foe the _Enterprise_ ever faced (when he wasn’t at war with Eurasia, of course). If the next movie is about an updated Charlie X and Spock-Nimoy is consulted again, I expect he’ll say Charlie X was the most dangerous foe the _Enterprise_ ever faced. Can _you_ explain the motivation of the Peter Weller character in clear terms? As far as I can tell: -Admiral Marcus believes war with the Klingons is inevitable -To prepare, he sponsors or organizes or whatever the top secret Section 31 to engage in weapons and tactical research and whatnot -Somehow he manages to do this with no civilian oversight at all, but since the relationship of Starfleet to the Federation government is ill-defined at best (the Federation government is itself ill-defined and surprisingly absent through this and the previous film)… whatever… -To help Section 31, he thaws out a war criminal from two centuries earlier. I’m not sure of the merits of this - Khan seems like a bright enough guy, but surely there are plenty of 23rd century uber-nerds to choose from who are already familiar with current tech - but… whatever… -Marcus _only_ revives Khan - his 72 buddies… well, just leave them on ice. -Khan escapes, blows up Section 31, nearly blows up Marcus, _does_ blow up Pike… Now, everything up to this point, I could sort-of buy into, albeit reluctantly, as just the mental cost of watching an action movie, i.e. the background doesn’t make sense, but this is the situation as it stands and we’re to watch the heroes fight their way through it. For me, the movie goes unrecoverably off the rails when Khan escapes to Kronos (or however it’s spelled). Doesn’t he know that Marcus believes war with Kronos is coming, and the Marcus is building a Dreadnought to wage that war? What was Khan’s next move at that point, conquer Kronos, avoid the war? To tell the Klingons about Marcus so they would attack first? _What the fuck is going on here?_ And we haven’t even gotten to the 72 torpedo-freezers yet. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/277 "2013-06-18T11:35:28Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > I liked the movie; I thought it was a fun ride. The only thing that bothered me, oddly, was the call from New!Spock to Old!Spock. Not so much the call, but the fact that he made it from the bridge in full view and hearing of the entire bridge crew. Maybe I missed something, since I only saw the first movie on TV, but wasn’t Old!Spock’s identity as a man from a different future timeline supposed to be a _secret_? i thought the same thing. i figured spock would take the call somewhere more private. oh well. khan was unfrozen because the ship was set that way. when someone came on board the ship would start the unfreezing on khan as he was the leader of the group. he would then unfreeze the others. same thing this time around. the found the ship, boarded it, khan started unfreezing, the admiral kept him away from his frozen crew. khan has a very steep learning curve (as was shown on tos) and was able to come up to speed rather quickly. he works with marcus on designing weapons and a ship. a ship that could run with a small crew… or just one person (how marcus missed the big flashing red flag on that one, i don’t know). he designs the torpedos and is able to place his crew in them… to be transfered onto the big ship that can be run by one person. he is caught before the torpedos were loaded. he flees, and feels certain that marcus would take action against his crew for the plan he was hatching ('cause that is what khan would do). khan has the archive blown up as a counterstrike against marcus. then goes after marcus himself at the “secure meeting”. flees again. finds out on kronos that the 72 are still on the torpedos and decides to get onto the enterprize to go for another cunning plan to get his crew. that is the way i saw it. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/278 "2013-06-18T14:13:54Z")
> [@rocking\_chair](#): > > \ > > that is the way i saw it. That actually makes a fair bit of sense, at least as far as (most of) Khan’s actions/activities are concerned. There’s still the “why Khronos?” problem, but the rest of it makes sense. Well done, **rocking chair**! ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/279 "2013-06-18T14:26:07Z")
Khan went to Kronos because, although Marcus thought that war with the Klingons was inevitable, _he wasn’t ready for war yet_. He had only the one ubership, and taking it out after the Enterprise was apparently it’s first outing (since when Scotty finds it, it’s still in in its box in mint condition). ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/280 "2013-06-18T16:07:54Z")
> [@D-bear](#): > > To all the haters up thread… Bill Shatner said it best. Get A Life! This again? :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > It was a Pop Corn action adventure pic. That’s not what people are criticizing. It’s perfectly possible to have a popcorn summer movie with a shred of storytelling credibility. It’s not required for a popcorn movie to blithely ignore continuity and verisimilitude. > [@](#): > > I was thrilled that it was a total fan-wank. That’s great. I hope you’re proud of yourself. > [@](#): > > Some one HAD to scream KHAAAAAN! Says who? No. No one “HAD” to. > [@](#): > > I watched TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT, in every incarnation. That’s great. Would you like a cookie? > [@](#): > > This was what _ **I** _ wanted to see. It’s rude to assume that your tastes are universal, and narcissistic to assume what you want invalidates the preferences and criticisms of others. > [@](#): > > Those of you who play dress-up and “live” in that universe need to just move out of mom and dad’s basement, and try kissing a girl. WTF??? A straw man, I guess. Also a bit ironic given that you said, “I watched TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT, in every incarnation.” Who’s the Trekkie here? > [@](#): > > It’s entertainment. (It’s not real life. It did NOT really happen, and it’s not re-happening in an unfavorable way.) You don’t say? > [@](#): > > It’s just make believe, enjoy it for what it’s worth. Make me. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/281 "2013-06-18T16:14:30Z")
I realized, just after the chance to hit the edit button again had passed, that the above is possibly a bit too snarky for this Forum. I apologize. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528.md?page=15)