# Star Trek Into Darkness Seen it thread. Spoilers to follow **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 16, 2013, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528 "2013-05-16T17:16:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/41 "2013-05-18T02:20:11Z")
> [@Rysler](#): > > Existing. III is a fine film. II, III and IV make a great trilogy. ---
**Author:** ![Speak\_to\_me\_Maddie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Speak\_to\_me\_Maddie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speak_to_me_Maddie)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/42 "2013-05-18T02:29:30Z")
Just came home from it. I enjoyed it, but not nearly as much as the first reboot. Nevertheless it was enjoyable. I think of it as a Trek themed action film, and I can see how Trekkies could be disappointed in it. I loved Cumberbatch in it, thought he was the best thing, but I wish he’d had more dramatic screen time and less fist fighting time. ---
**Author:** ![toast\_pakora](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3ec8ea/32.png) [@toast\_pakora](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toast_pakora)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/43 "2013-05-18T03:25:21Z")
heh, I could have written ^ word for word. The first reboot was awe-inspiring. This was more like a made-for-tv movie. I also thought Cumberbatch had more presence than Chris Pine in a few scenes. All that fist-fighting and running through corridors seemed interminable. I’m not sorry that I saw it; I just wish it had lived up to the first movie. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/44 "2013-05-18T03:30:43Z")
> [@toast\_pakora](#): > > This was more like a made-for-tv movie. I also thought Cumberbatch had more presence than Chris Pine in a few scenes. In fairness, how did Ricardo Montalban stack up against William Shatner in the presence department? ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/45 "2013-05-18T03:51:44Z")
I think I enjoyed this film better than the 2009 reboot, which I enjoyed a lot. I see it rather as a reversal of emotion and roles to _Wrath of Khan_ than a mirroring, and thought it was handled well, and for me, when viewed in that light made for some interesting turned-tables. Character and emotional moments were great, I’d just really like one full film where Scotty is aboard ship and chief engineer for the whole ride. The promise of an, as yet, unprecedented five-year exploratory mission, being on the brink of a Klingon war, and seeing Khan and his 72 buddies back in cryo (oh where might they end up?) is encouraging. I was _really_ hoping to see those cryo-tubes jettisoned to _Ceti Alpha Five_ at the very end… _HE TASKS ME! HE TASKS MEEE!!!_ ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/46 "2013-05-18T04:38:31Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > III is a fine film. II, III and IV make a great trilogy. And the events of III have a large influence on “The Undiscovered Country” as a mis-trustful Kirk has to play ambassador to people of the same race (those Klingon bastards) as those who killed his son. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/47 "2013-05-18T05:10:32Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I had a few questions about the plot and its exposition but I only remember two of them right now: > > 1. When was Khan born? I thought it said the present year is 2259 towards the beginning of the movie, but later they said Khan is at least 300 years old. But surely he wasn’t born in 1959? Did I misread the date? He ruled most of Asia from 1993 to 1996, so no later than 1980s, surely. > [@](#): > > 1. What exactly was Kirk communicating to Khan when he asked McCoy about the tribble? I didn’t quite understand what Khan was supposed to understand from that. Nothing, just hammering home the method for his eventual resurrection. Or, he’s an infant with a poor attention span and saw McCoy messing about with a tribble corpse and got distracted. > [@](#): > > A few things I feel like should have been done differently: > > A. Spock’s conversation with Spock was ludicrous–“I promised I wouldn’t ever give you timeline-altering info, but anyway, here’s a bunch of timeline-altering info.” It should have been something much more enigmatic. Like finding out Khan is apparently their ally at the time, then emphasizing Khan’s ruthlessness, which would be an ambiguous thing to emphasize. Spock certainly, in my view, already had enough information to be worried and to make plans for just in case Khan turned on them. He asked oSpock how they defeated Khan, as if that was going to be important. But they originally defeated him because he didn’t understand Starfleet technology (prefix codes), Starfleet regulations (codes) or Starfleet tactics (being subject to Space is an Ocean). Obviously, having been defrosted to help develop the new warrior-Starfleet, none of that is going to be relevant. He’s been inventing Starfleet technologies. > [@](#): > > B. Kirk’s death scene–I wanted to tweak the dialogue just a little bit. When Kirk asked how not to feel, Spock said something like “I don’t know, right now I’m failing.” This is in tension with what he said before, which is interesting, but the lack of follow up made me unsure the tension was intentional. I would have had him just leave it at “I do not know.” Then perhaps Kirk could say something like “But what you said to Uhura before…” and then Spock could finish the sentence for him, “was a lie.” I quite liked the death scene. In general the film went down hill after they revealed Khan, but that was a bright point. Then they went into their little-Search-for-Spock, which burdened it somewhat. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/48 "2013-05-18T05:14:04Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Yes, that bothered me in the first one, too… Vulcan was seven warp-minutes from Earth? I can understand a wish to speed things up a bit but the notion that the galaxy has been reduced to a high-density suburb bothers me above all other changes. TOS has a journey to the edge of the galaxy, TAS has a journey to the centre of the Galaxy, as does Star Trek V. Warp feats were consistently better in TOS-era than TNG era. ---
**Author:** ![magnusblitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@magnusblitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magnusblitz)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/49 "2013-05-18T07:13:13Z")
Just saw it. I agree with OP that “not as bad as I feared, not as good as I hoped” is a good way to sum it up. There’s no awesome set-piece that really stands apart, and the motivations of the characters are overly simplified (“he’s evil, go fight!”). I think the film’s central design flaw is that it requires having seen _Wrath of Khan_ to really understand/enjoy it (as the most they explain in this movie is that he’s some sort of super-smart, super-ruthless dude, with one line referring to his genetic supremicist viewpoint) - but _Wrath_ is the better movie IMO. The best part is when they basically rip off the Spock-dies-in-the-radiation-chamber moment, and then they go and do the obvious thing and keep Kirk alive. Blargh. And while I usually love narmy self-references, having Spock yell KHAAAAAAAAAAN! at that moment was just… yeaaah. I dunno, it wasn’t bad, I was entertained, but I’m kinda worried for Star Wars Episode 7 now. I really hope they make JJ Abrams keep the ShakyCam at home for that one and go for more of the classic style, because this one didn’t really feel entirely like a Star Trek movie to me. If Episode 7 is shot like this, it won’t feel remotely like Star Wars at all. ---
**Author:** ![Draelin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@Draelin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Draelin)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/50 "2013-05-18T11:47:34Z")
I liked it more than I expected to, given the iffy reviews I had read. I managed to keep myself so thoroughly unspoiled before going to the theater that I had convinced myself John Harrison _wouldn’t_ turn out to be Khan … until he started talking. Especially once the number “seventy-two” came out. I don’t know if I’m right, but my brain seemed to dredge up the idea that there were 72 surviving crew of the Botany Bay. Overall, I felt the second half was a little too blatantly pandering to fans, but I still enjoyed the hell out of it. I think if they had just omitted Spock’s “KHAAAAAAAN!!!” I would have been completely satisfied. There was no need for that. We got it. We saw the parallels. That’s beneath you, Zachary Quinto. ---
**Author:** ![Hermione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cdc98d/32.png) [@Hermione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermione)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/51 "2013-05-18T13:24:08Z")
I liked it. (You know…for a second I thought they were gonna do it. I actually thought they were gonna kill off James T. Kirk. Stupid of me, maybe, but…) At this point I’d like to direct you to [this.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iauuuhpSfRQ) Which I don’t think I’d enjoy half as much if I wasn’t the opera fan I am. My only quibbles with it are: 1. It should be “L’ira di Khan.” 2. Shouldn’t Kirk be the tenor and Khan the baritone? ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/52 "2013-05-18T13:40:32Z")
i believe the khan scream would have worked better if spock just quietly walked away from engineering, then the beam down to find khan, then as he catches sight of him, that’s the time to khan yell. the way i read the movie khan seemed to enjoy sparring with spock over kirk. perhaps should khan and crew get defrosted, he will have spock be his “white whale”. i enjoyed mr cumberbatch’s khan. the way he would go from near statue stillness to explosive movement was chilling. in an interview, quinto and pine said their favourite khan line was “you should have let me sleep”. i can see why. that was quite intense. (also how i feel most mornings when the alarm goes off.) ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/53 "2013-05-18T14:29:13Z")
> [@Hermione](#): > > (You know…for a second I thought they were gonna do it. I actually thought they were gonna kill off James T. Kirk. Stupid of me, maybe, but…) For a few moments I genuinely thought the next episode would be titled _The Search For Kirk_. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/54 "2013-05-18T15:09:49Z")
You know what really bugged me? Not once but twice the Enterprise ends up forcefully and unexpectedly knocked out of warp. OK, I can buy that, these things happen… But in both cases, when this happens, they end up in easy subwarp range of their destination? How does that happen? If they were that close, why didn’t they just deliberately drop out of warp anyway? Oh, and how is the “Space, the final frontier” monologue supposed to be a captain’s oath, anyway? Even aside from not being an oath at all, this is supposedly the first ever five-year mission. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/55 "2013-05-18T15:28:54Z")
So why did it even occur to Spock to contact Old Spock to ask about Kahn? Does he just do this with all problems? Did he text “On a planet of yellow and white wildlings in a red forest that’s about to get blown up by a volcano if I don’t violate the Prime Directive. Ever been there?” in the first scene? And really, all that Old Spock said was “He’s a tough mother, watch your back”, which Young Spock should already have known. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/56 "2013-05-18T15:34:15Z")
Haven’t actually seen it, but popped in to say “I told you so!” It was Khan under a pseudonym. ---
**Author:** ![Draelin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@Draelin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Draelin)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/57 "2013-05-18T16:02:34Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Oh, and how is the “Space, the final frontier” monologue supposed to be a captain’s oath, anyway? Even aside from not being an oath at all, this is supposedly the first ever five-year mission. I chose to believe that that is _not_ the Captain’s Oath, and instead they just kind of segued from whatever Kirk was saying into the words we all knew. Because that’s a pretty shitty oath. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/58 "2013-05-18T17:34:59Z")
They missed an enormous storytelling opportunity there. Khan should have never turned on them. Let Khan be utterly focused on ending Marcus and rescuing his people. The same focus, the same dominance and determination could have been there, but it didn’t need to be monomaniacally focused on being ‘superior’. Make Khan - if not good - sympathetic. That would have made for a better storyline and set up things down the road. Show that Khan had developed in this universe. Khan from TOS and WoK never had a chance to adjust to the Federation. He was awoken, fought Kirk and stranded. Then he was focused on revenging the wrong done him. In THIS universe, however, he’s had a year or so to see what’s been happening in the federation. It’s possible he’s had time to rethink his position vis-a-vis dominating the world through force of arms. He could enter politics, buy into the idea of self-improvement, hit the sciences, colonize other worlds or whatever. The opportunities for Khan-as-citizen are enormous. But not to be, apparently. Sad. ---
**Author:** ![catnoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@catnoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catnoe)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/59 "2013-05-18T18:15:55Z")
Just saw it. Awesome. Cumberbatch as Khan, perfect. At some point if the reboot last long enough they will diverge from the original stories. I’m enjoying the retelling of beloved movies in an alternate time line. Watching them to see where and how they differ is fun. Chris Pine is not playing a young William Shatner as James T. Kirk, he is James T. Kirk. I know I am repeating myself but Cumberbatch was freakin’ awesome as Khan. Ricardo Montalban as Khan was charming and beautiful (I had a major crush on him at the time). Cumberbatch’s Khan is more cerebral, cold, and dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/60 "2013-05-18T18:41:11Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > It’s possible he’s had time to rethink his position vis-a-vis dominating the world through force of arms. He could enter politics, buy into the idea of self-improvement, hit the sciences, colonize other worlds or whatever. The opportunities for Khan-as-citizen are enormous. But not to be, apparently. Sad. I don’t think so. He was a megalomaniac in his time, then put in cold sleep for 200+ years. Didn’t Khan[2013] as much as say world domination was still his aim? Woosifying Khan would be very PC and moderne, but I’ll take a good shot at self-satisfied evil any day. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528.md?page=4)