# Star Trek Into Darkness Seen it thread. Spoilers to follow **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 16, 2013, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528 "2013-05-16T17:16:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/61 "2013-05-18T18:51:27Z")
I’m not saying he becomes all sickening sweet and cloying and root beery (like the Federation). But when he was frozen world domination might seem achievable. There’s one, fractured world out there for him to know and do his act upon. Suddenly, he wakes up 300 years later and there’s a galaxy out there to deal with. It’s much larger. Too large for one - rational - being to dominate through force of arms/will. A more subtle and long-term approach is required to achieve that sort of power. It’s a disappointment to me that Khan couldn’t see that. Plus, given a chance to rewrite and re-motivate a character as iconic as Khan? Especially when it contradicts oldSpock’s advice? That would have been brilliant. And hard for a writer to NOT go for (at least my sort of writer). ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/62 "2013-05-18T20:03:34Z")
I think the problem with the idea of a “Good Kahn” is Kahn is not a good person. He is arrogant, narcissistic and sociopathic. Had “Space Seed” gone differently and Kirk dropped him off on a Star Base he would have probably schemed there to take control of the Federation. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/63 "2013-05-18T20:12:52Z")
I don’t think the idea is to make him good. The idea is to make him patient. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/64 "2013-05-18T20:26:01Z")
Yeah, there’s “evil and self-serving, looking out only for one’s own interests regardless of the effect on others”, and then there’s “I’m going to twirl my moustache and betray everyone and everything just because I’m the villain and that’s what villains do”. The former is generally much more interesting than the latter. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/65 "2013-05-18T20:34:36Z")
I had planned to not see this movie because of the way Abrams raped the franchise with the last one. Now I’m really not going to see it. SWMBO’s gonna be pissed as well. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/66 "2013-05-18T20:35:02Z")
It also presupposes that someone as smart as Khan can’t change and grow. That’s just lazy writing. Easy writing. Making Khan a more complex character with goals above ‘RULE THE WORLD!!!’ is harder, but more rewarding for the audience. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/67 "2013-05-18T20:46:00Z")
I loved a lot of the homages. The Daystrom Institute, the Mudd incident, section 31. Also, I didn’t see him listed in the credits, but I think the Klingon Uhura talked to was played by Tony Todd, who played Worf’s brother Kurn. If so perhaps that was supposed to be one of Worf’s ancestors. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/68 "2013-05-18T20:51:06Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > It also presupposes that someone as smart as Khan can’t change and grow. That’s just lazy writing. Easy writing. > > Making Khan a more complex character with goals above ‘RULE THE WORLD!!!’ is harder, but more rewarding for the audience. Except he’d been bred and raised to believe he was superior to all non-genetically enhanced humans and it was for the best that he rule them. That said, in Space Seed, he’s hardly evil, it’s the death of his wife and twenty of his men that pushes him over the edge. Similarly, Marcus pushed him over the edge by threatening his crew. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/69 "2013-05-18T22:17:19Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > That said, in Space Seed, he’s hardly evil, it’s the death of his wife and twenty of his men that pushes him over the edge. Similarly, Marcus pushed him over the edge by threatening his crew. I think you need to rewatch “Space Seed”. Kahn lies early on and starts scheming almost immediately to get information and take control of the ship. He manipulates Marla McGivers to this end. You can make a case that he got a raw deal on Ceti Alpha V afterwards and was driven insane by those events but even when first meeting Kirk and the Enterprise it is pretty clear he is not a good person in bad circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Speak\_to\_me\_Maddie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Speak\_to\_me\_Maddie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speak_to_me_Maddie)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/70 "2013-05-18T22:21:31Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Yeah, there’s “evil and self-serving, looking out only for one’s own interests regardless of the effect on others”, and then there’s “I’m going to twirl my moustache and betray everyone and everything just because I’m the villain and that’s what villains do”. The former is generally much more interesting than the latter. But in this story it only makes sense for Kahn to kill Kirk and the Enterprise after Kahn gets his crew back. Leaving Kirk and company alive will only create potential problems for Kahn in whatever he plans to do. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/71 "2013-05-18T23:05:04Z")
Can anyone explain to me why Chris Hemsworth’s name appears in the credits of ‘Into Darkness’? ‘Star Trek 2009’, I understand - he played Kirk’s father; but when did he appear in ‘Into Darkness’? ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/72 "2013-05-18T23:51:01Z")
> [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](#): > > Can anyone explain to me why Chris Hemsworth’s name appears in the credits of ‘Into Darkness’? ‘Star Trek 2009’, I understand - he played Kirk’s father; but when did he appear in ‘Into Darkness’? Just a guess but maybe during that brief glimpse of Kirk’s apartment (with the two Cat Girls) there was a picture of his Dad somewhere? ---
**Author:** ![Hermione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cdc98d/32.png) [@Hermione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermione)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/73 "2013-05-19T00:52:06Z")
> [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](#): > > Can anyone explain to me why Chris Hemsworth’s name appears in the credits of ‘Into Darkness’? ‘Star Trek 2009’, I understand - he played Kirk’s father; but when did he appear in ‘Into Darkness’? Yeah, and Jennifer Morrison as Winona Kirk as well. Maybe there was a deleted scene that featured them in a flashback and they just forgot to take the names out? ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/74 "2013-05-19T00:59:47Z")
> [@Hermione](#): > > Yeah, and Jennifer Morrison as Winona Kirk as well. Maybe there was a deleted scene that featured them in a flashback and they just forgot to take the names out? I still want to know what happened to Flash Gordon and Ming of Mongo in _A Christmas Story_. ---
**Author:** ![randwill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@randwill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randwill)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/75 "2013-05-19T01:01:11Z")
I haven’t seen it yet so I can’t read this thread, but I would like to know if it’s all lens flair crazy like the first one. ---
**Author:** ![Hermione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cdc98d/32.png) [@Hermione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermione)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/76 "2013-05-19T01:02:38Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > I still want to know what happened to Flash Gordon and Ming of Mongo in _A Christmas Story_. Yeah, and “Mother” and “Father” in The Princess Bride. Since the King and Queen and the little boy’s mother were listed separately, I’m presuming that Buttercup’s mother and father were originally slated to appear in TPB (as they did in the book) and were cut. There apparently WAS a daydream sequence in ACS involving Flash and Ming with Ralphie and his BB gun, but that got cut. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/77 "2013-05-19T01:03:02Z")
> [@randwill](#): > > I haven’t seen it yet so I can’t read this thread, but I would like to know if it’s all lens flair crazy like the first one. It flares, yes, but at least their pant legs don’t. While we’re on that, just how many goddamned Starfleet uniforms are there? I swear the main characters wore something different every five minutes. ---
**Author:** ![Sparky\_the\_Wonder\_Spirit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Sparky\_the\_Wonder\_Spirit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky_the_Wonder_Spirit)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/78 "2013-05-19T01:07:12Z")
> [@Hermione](#): > > Yeah, and Jennifer Morrison as Winona Kirk as well. Maybe there was a deleted scene that featured them in a flashback and they just forgot to take the names out? I think maybe I heard their voices in that blackout scene right before Kirk woke up? Also, damn, Mr. Abrams. You just strapped on those wax wings and flew directly into the sun, didn’t you? “Hubris? What’s hubris? Is it a shower gel? Do I bathe in it?” I loved the movie, but I can see why the traditional Trek-folk might be disappointed. Also, if you have a character whose first name is ‘Khan’, and last name is ‘Singh’ … maybe don’t hire the whitest actor in all of creation to play him. (I’m a big fan of Benedict Cumberbatch, but I thought he was kind of wasted in the part - there really wasn’t all that much for him to do.) ---
**Author:** ![Hermione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cdc98d/32.png) [@Hermione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermione)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/79 "2013-05-19T01:10:39Z")
Some are speculating that Section 31 gave him a little plastic surgery to alter his appearance and make him more convincing as “John Harrison.” Which makes sense. I mean, if you’re recruiting a rather notorious historical figure you don’t want to take the chance that there just might be someone to recognize his facial features, do you? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528/80 "2013-05-19T02:39:06Z")
Just saw it today. Like the reboot movie, it was fun. It did not really make much sense, and the ending felt as if they were like “oh crap, we’re at two hours, gotta end this.” Khan gets beaten up on a futuristic dump truck? That’s the climax? But it was fun. I agree with one thing: this was a missed opportunity to set Khan up as a terrible villain in a future movie. I disagree with the idea Cummerbatch was a good Khan, to the extent that I am wondering what movie you people were watching. He was a terrible choice, utterly unsuitable for a role that was poorly written. (Why would be introduce himself as Khan? His name is Khan Noonian Singh.). I’m sick of “skinny British serious guy” as the go to villain, especially for a guy who’s supposed to be, you know, Asian, and really should LOOK more physically imposing. He did his best, but he was not the right actor. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-into-darkness-seen-it-thread-spoilers-to-follow/658528.md?page=5)