# "Star Trek IV" nitpick: Why did they need transparent aluminum? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 4, 2010, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-iv-nitpick-why-did-they-need-transparent-aluminum/541933 "2010-06-04T15:02:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-iv-nitpick-why-did-they-need-transparent-aluminum/541933/21 "2010-06-04T17:33:20Z")
It still isn’t that big. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-iv-nitpick-why-did-they-need-transparent-aluminum/541933/22 "2010-06-04T17:50:40Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > The whales are intelligent, they wouldn’t want to be in total darkness. Where do whales go at night, then? ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-iv-nitpick-why-did-they-need-transparent-aluminum/541933/23 "2010-06-04T17:58:49Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Because, of course, he calculates the thickness of plexiglas to hold back water all the time. Without having to know the dimensions of the tank. > Although I love the film, this line always bothers me. There are some engineers who’d rattle off a definite number like that with no observable delay for calculation (or bullshitting) and with great confidence, but Nichols doesn’t otherwise act like one. I think (and have always thought) it’s the salesman side of him that came up with the dimension, conveniently probably the largest and most expensive in stock item he has. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-iv-nitpick-why-did-they-need-transparent-aluminum/541933/24 "2010-06-04T18:03:59Z")
Stupid question, but why use any sort of partition at all? Couldn’t they just fill up the entire cargo hold with water and whales? > [@CalMeacham](#): > > Because, of course, he calculates the thickness of plexiglas to hold back water all the time. Without having to know the dimensions of the tank. What else do you use 6" plexiglass for if not giant aquariums? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-iv-nitpick-why-did-they-need-transparent-aluminum/541933/25 "2010-06-04T18:10:56Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Stupid question, but why use any sort of partition at all? Couldn’t they just fill up the entire cargo hold with water and whales? The water may exhibit more force than the structure could withstand. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-iv-nitpick-why-did-they-need-transparent-aluminum/541933/26 "2010-06-04T18:12:08Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Stupid question, but why use any sort of partition at all? Couldn’t they just fill up the entire cargo hold with water and whales? It looked to me like the transporter controls were inside the space you’d be transporting the whales and water into without the partition. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-iv-nitpick-why-did-they-need-transparent-aluminum/541933/27 "2010-06-04T18:12:14Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > The pieces aren’t nearly that big. A UH-1 Huey is 57 feet long. [Look how big the sheet is when they are lowering it into the stealthed Warbird.](http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/ __cb20050703045432/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/e/e7/Huey_loading_cloaked_BoP.jpg/180px-Huey_loading_cloaked_BoP.jpg&imgrefurl=http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Hikaru_Sulu&usg=__ eUm6W8iE8-sag35nl5-5Mbc9vyQ=&h=135&w=180&sz=6&hl=en&start=6&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=Bgmho-ZpvaP9YM:&tbnh=76&tbnw=101&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dstar%2Btrek%2Biv%2Bthe%2Bvoyage%2Bhome%2Bhuey%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Dactive%26tbs%3Disch:1) I don’t think they really had to span 60 feet. Instead, I think they had to insert the Plexiglas between the vertical column spaced perhaps every twenty feet. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-iv-nitpick-why-did-they-need-transparent-aluminum/541933/28 "2010-06-04T18:14:21Z")
> [@](#): > > I think (and have always thought) it’s the salesman side of him that came up with the dimension, conveniently probably the largest and most expensive in stock item he has. Now _that_ I can believe. 6" seems awfully thick, btw. I’ve never seen plexiglas even approaching that thickness. This site gives 32 mm as the greatest thickness of extruded product they have, although they list block and sheet _cast_ thickness to 160 mm (which is just over 6"). I’ll bet anything that size is a Special Order, and they’re unlikely to have cast blocks big enough for Whale Tanks around. But I’ll cut them some Suspension of Disbelief slack > **[Downloads](https://www.plexiglas.de/en/service/downloads)** > > PLEXIGLAS® - The Original Acrylic. Proven quality, Sustainability & 90 years of experience. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-iv-nitpick-why-did-they-need-transparent-aluminum/541933/29 "2010-06-04T18:22:37Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Stupid question, but why use any sort of partition at all? Couldn’t they just fill up the entire cargo hold with water and whales? There are probably a lot of holes and cracks in the cargo bay. I’m pretty sure that if I filled my apartment with water, it would all leak out in less than a day. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-iv-nitpick-why-did-they-need-transparent-aluminum/541933/30 "2010-06-04T18:24:17Z")
> [@](#): > > There are probably a lot of holes and cracks in the cargo bay. I’m pretty sure that if I filled my apartment with water, it would all leak out in less than a day. I know it’s true of my basement. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-iv-nitpick-why-did-they-need-transparent-aluminum/541933/31 "2010-06-04T18:29:12Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Because, of course, he calculates the thickness of plexiglas to hold back water all the time. Without having to know the dimensions of the tank. He **did** know the dimensions of the tank – two dimensions and the volume (60 feet by 10 feet, 18,000 cubic feet) defines the third dimension uniquely given the obvious assumption of a rectangular prism (in this case, the third dimension is 30 feet). ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-iv-nitpick-why-did-they-need-transparent-aluminum/541933/32 "2010-06-04T19:00:25Z")
Only if you assume that it’s a rectangular tank with only that volume. And he still did it all pretty fast. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-iv-nitpick-why-did-they-need-transparent-aluminum/541933/33 "2010-06-04T19:02:12Z")
Come on. He’s enough of a genius to invent transparent aluminum. Surely he’s capable of a calculation like that. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-iv-nitpick-why-did-they-need-transparent-aluminum/541933/34 "2010-06-04T19:02:13Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > There are probably a lot of holes and cracks in the cargo bay. I would presume areas of the ship could be pressurized. Klingons are tough, but they can’t suck vacuum very long. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-iv-nitpick-why-did-they-need-transparent-aluminum/541933/35 "2010-06-04T19:06:41Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I would presume areas of the ship could be pressurized. Klingons are tough, but they can’t suck vacuum very long. Good point. But that just assumes that the entire ship is airtight, not each individual room. Then again, should part of the hull be breached, it would be a dandy idea to be able to seal it off. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-iv-nitpick-why-did-they-need-transparent-aluminum/541933/36 "2010-06-04T19:20:19Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Then again, should part of the hull be breached, it would be a dandy idea to be able to seal it off. That is my thought, just as ships have water tight compartments. What is the calculation for water pressure, rho_G_h? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-iv-nitpick-why-did-they-need-transparent-aluminum/541933/37 "2010-06-04T19:23:28Z")
> [@obfusciatrist](#): > > So the real hole is that a crew of incredibly competent people from centuries in the future with advanced technology couldn’t quickly come up with a way of making a few thousand dollars without giving away advanced technology and messing with the timeline (not to mention the Prime Directive). Easily fanwanked and without paradoxes: 1. Transparent aluminum was an invention the Vulcans had as well as the Terrans. 2. As an undergrad, or maybe even in high school, Scotty wondered how humans came up with the exact same formula as the Vulcans, given that the latter invented it when they were much further along technologically. It had been eating at him for 40-plus years, and he always wondered if there were some alien influence involved. 3. Because it had been eating at him, so long, he instantly recognized the engineer he was talking to as the person who had invented transparent aluminum, and then realized that this was the year it was supposed to be invented. 4. Thus he realized that it was not only permissible to to give the guy the formula, but was, in fact, necessary. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-iv-nitpick-why-did-they-need-transparent-aluminum/541933/38 "2010-06-04T19:32:38Z")
> [@obfusciatrist](#): > > So the real hole is that a crew of incredibly competent people from centuries in the future with advanced technology couldn’t quickly come up with a way of making a few thousand dollars without giving away advanced technology and messing with the timeline (not to mention the Prime Directive). I’d like to see you do it if you were dumped in 1750. 😛 With the constraints laid on them, a little knowledge and a pair of glasses is all they had to deal with. Hell, just the rental cost of the Huey alone would eat up a few thousand dollars, never mind the cost of the plexiglass. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-iv-nitpick-why-did-they-need-transparent-aluminum/541933/39 "2010-06-04T19:50:39Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Hell, just the rental cost of the Huey alone would eat up a few thousand dollars, never mind the cost of the plexiglass. I think Sulu stole it. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-iv-nitpick-why-did-they-need-transparent-aluminum/541933/40 "2010-06-04T19:50:57Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Easily fanwanked and without paradoxes… Well done, sir. Very well done indeed. :: golf clap :: Even a pressurized Klingon starship is going to have all sorts of wires and conduits passing through the outer hull, I’ll bet. Just filling the hold with water could lead to all sorts of shorts, corrosion, settling into areas you don’t want it to go, etc. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-iv-nitpick-why-did-they-need-transparent-aluminum/541933.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-iv-nitpick-why-did-they-need-transparent-aluminum/541933.md?page=3)