# "Star Trek IV" nitpick: Why did they need transparent aluminum? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 4, 2010, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-iv-nitpick-why-did-they-need-transparent-aluminum/541933 "2010-06-04T15:02:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-iv-nitpick-why-did-they-need-transparent-aluminum/541933/41 "2010-06-04T19:52:18Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I think Sulu stole it. Ahem. “Borrowed.” ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-iv-nitpick-why-did-they-need-transparent-aluminum/541933/42 "2010-06-04T19:57:07Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Ahem. “Borrowed.” Fanwanker. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-iv-nitpick-why-did-they-need-transparent-aluminum/541933/43 "2010-06-04T20:09:05Z")
He should have just put the whales in a repeating transporter loop 😃 ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-iv-nitpick-why-did-they-need-transparent-aluminum/541933/44 "2010-06-04T20:09:45Z")
Regarding the idea of “transparent aluminum” itself – I recall an article from Skeptical Inquirer (_Ancient Aluminum? Flexible Glass?_ by Gerhard Eggert, Vol. 19 #3 pp. 37-40 (1995)) noting that there was apparently a modern legend that the Roman references to malleable glass found in Pliny and Petronius might refer to aluminum. i don’t know who made the suggestions, or when (the SI article came out well after the film, so it can’t be a source), but I wonder if Nicholas Meyer or one of the other screenwriters might have had this idea in mind when they suggested that Scotty was looking for “Transparent Aluminum”. > **[Base de données bibliographiques du Réseau d'information sur la conservation...](https://app.pch.gc.ca/sgc-cms/bcin/index.html?submit=submit&Chinkey=166150)** > > The Conservation Bibliography provides access to bibliographic records on conservation and restoration of cultural property. These bibliographic records are contributed by conservation specialists all over the world. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-iv-nitpick-why-did-they-need-transparent-aluminum/541933/45 "2010-06-04T20:12:44Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Ahem. “Borrowed.” I thought he sweet-talked the pilot into letting him have a little joy ride. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-iv-nitpick-why-did-they-need-transparent-aluminum/541933/46 "2010-06-04T20:15:17Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Because, of course, he calculates the thickness of plexiglas to hold back water all the time. Without having to know the dimensions of the tank. He just has to know how much pressure 6" of plexiglass will stand up to. No calculation is involved; you just need to know the properties of the material. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-iv-nitpick-why-did-they-need-transparent-aluminum/541933/47 "2010-06-04T20:17:37Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I think Sulu stole it. I’ll have to check the DVD to be sure, but I think Sulu was in the left seat. That means he was the **co-pilot**. Meaning he rented it, although the movie strongly implies that he “borrows” it. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-iv-nitpick-why-did-they-need-transparent-aluminum/541933/48 "2010-06-04T20:23:56Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > I thought he sweet-talked the pilot into letting him have a little joy ride. Shame on you. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-iv-nitpick-why-did-they-need-transparent-aluminum/541933/49 "2010-06-04T20:24:39Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > I’d like to see you do it if you were dumped in 1750. 😛 Dump me into 1750 with access to modern technology and access to detailed history of the world and I’d be a very rich man when I died. And being able to use a transporter to removed whatever cash is necessary from a rarely opened basement vault of the San Francisco Federal Reserve wouldn’t even be necessary. (Or, if you don’t want to steal quite so blatantly) transport some valuable metal directly out of the ground. Or use scanners to find all the loose change that has been lost in the sand at Ocean Beach. Or hell, just teleport the needed plexiglass directly out of the warehouse. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-iv-nitpick-why-did-they-need-transparent-aluminum/541933/50 "2010-06-04T20:24:43Z")
Why didn’t they just beam some cash money out of a bank vault somewhere, instead of messin with the timeline. Incidentally, Kirk & Co. should’ve patented their method of time travel. So easy, and so accurate! ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-iv-nitpick-why-did-they-need-transparent-aluminum/541933/51 "2010-06-04T20:29:01Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > Incidentally, Kirk & Co. should’ve patented their method of time travel. So easy, and so accurate! That’s a fun patent application to write out: Step 1: Get a Vulcan-Terran hybrid. Step 2: Kill it. But not before it transfers it’s _katra_ to a full Terran, preferably one pretty well preserved with ethanol. Step 3: Climb the steps of Mount Seleya. … ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-iv-nitpick-why-did-they-need-transparent-aluminum/541933/52 "2010-06-04T20:29:26Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > Incidentally, Kirk & Co. should’ve patented their method of time travel. So easy, and so accurate! One would have thought they could have worked something out with the Guardian from _The City on the Edge of Forever._ ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-iv-nitpick-why-did-they-need-transparent-aluminum/541933/53 "2010-06-04T20:35:00Z")
> [@](#): > > One would have thought they could have worked something out with the Guardian from The City on the Edge of Forever. Or Mr. AtoZ ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-iv-nitpick-why-did-they-need-transparent-aluminum/541933/54 "2010-06-04T20:37:34Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > Why didn’t they just beam some cash money out of a bank vault somewhere, instead of messin with the timeline. Because that would be stealing and stealing is _wrong_. (Messing up the timeline by giving primitive earthlings the secret to advanced technology is OK though.) Also, the helicopter was only borrowed so that doesn’t count. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-iv-nitpick-why-did-they-need-transparent-aluminum/541933/55 "2010-06-04T20:37:51Z")
Or just had the replicator run off enough hundreds to buy the stuff. So, who did invent transparent aluminum? Fanwank that, if you please. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-iv-nitpick-why-did-they-need-transparent-aluminum/541933/56 "2010-06-04T20:45:44Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > Why didn’t they just beam some cash money out of a bank vault somewhere, instead of messin with the timeline. I think my fanwank handles that. Scott may have privately thought that they should just take what they needed and be done with it, until realizing that the integrity fo the timeline required that he give the formula to the engineer anyway. As I wrote, he already thought that the guy had taken the knowledge from another source anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-iv-nitpick-why-did-they-need-transparent-aluminum/541933/57 "2010-06-04T20:48:00Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > Why didn’t they just beam some cash money out of a bank vault somewhere, instead of messin with the timeline. I think my fanwank handles that. Scott may have privately thought that they should just take what they needed and be done with it, until realizing that the integrity fo the timeline required that he give the formula to the engineer anyway. As I wrote, he already thought that the guy had taken the knowledge from another source anyway. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > So, who did invent transparent aluminum? Fanwank that, if you please. As I said, the Vulcans. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-iv-nitpick-why-did-they-need-transparent-aluminum/541933/58 "2010-06-04T20:54:15Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > That means he was the **co-pilot**. Meaning he rented it, Some 2oth century guy is flying it and gets to see into the cloaked Bird of Prey? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Crown\_Prince\_of\_Irony](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@Crown\_Prince\_of\_Irony](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crown_Prince_of_Irony)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-iv-nitpick-why-did-they-need-transparent-aluminum/541933/59 "2010-06-04T21:16:50Z")
Why bring up transparent aluminum? Why, that’s simple. To give me something to say every time I encounter an epic technology fail: (picture me trying to push the nonexistent start button in my wife’s minivan, because I’m used to my Nissan’s keyless start): “Computer. . . computer. . . oh, a keyboard. How quaint.” ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-iv-nitpick-why-did-they-need-transparent-aluminum/541933/60 "2010-06-05T00:39:08Z")
> [@obfusciatrist](#): > > So the real hole is that a crew of incredibly competent people from centuries in the future with advanced technology couldn’t quickly come up with a way of making a few thousand dollars without giving away advanced technology and messing with the timeline (not to mention the Prime Directive). But Kirk is still working in Depression era dollars, remember the look of glee on his face when he receives his hundred dollars for the spectacles. God knows what he would have traded the BoP for, part exchanged it for the cetologist’s pick up if he had the chance. And yes, I keep forgetting about the deal Scotty did with the plexiglas guy. But then I always keep getting sucked into thinking that there’s some sort of time paradox with the glasses. McCoy buys them in the 22nd century as a present, Kirk sells them in the 20th with the reminder to Spock that they’re be a present from McCoy again. Which always had me thinking as a kid that it meant the glasses would be bought for Kirk _after_ they had passed through the hands of the dealer. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-iv-nitpick-why-did-they-need-transparent-aluminum/541933.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-iv-nitpick-why-did-they-need-transparent-aluminum/541933.md?page=4)