# Star Trek: Khan **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 17, 2015, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-khan/715159 "2015-03-17T00:00:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-khan/715159/1 "2015-03-17T00:00:33Z")
Ok, this is probably going to get my Trekkie card pulled but this has bothered me a long time. Ok well 3 years, but that’s long. Why do people think Star Trek Into Darkness is a reboot of Wrath of Khan? It’s obvious it should be a gritty reboot of Space Seed with a little prequel to Undiscovered Country thrown in. I’ve always assumed they’d make another film to call a rebooted Wrath of Khan. Anyone else feel the same? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-khan/715159/2 "2015-03-17T00:51:00Z")
I don’t know that it’s a “reboot” of any particular episode or movie, but it requisitions several famous lines from Wrath of Kahn, so it seems to be intended to tell the whole story of Kahn, both the episode and movie, from TOS. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-khan/715159/3 "2015-03-17T01:17:24Z")
Shame on me for not having seen it yet…but does it go straight from the Botany Bay to Khan’s power play…or is there an intermediate period of exile on Ceti Alpha n/n-1? If he’s exiled, and comes back, that would be a WOK re-telling; if that middle period is left out, then it’s a SS re-telling. (I caught the last fifteen minutes on TV while channel-flipping. Fun!) ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-khan/715159/4 "2015-03-17T01:36:12Z")
It’s a heavyhanded metaphor about why JJ Abrams thinks drone warfare is bad. Anything else about what Khan storyline it’s rebooting is secondary. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-khan/715159/5 "2015-03-17T01:36:20Z")
> [@](#): > > Shame on me for not having seen it yet… That’s not shame. It was… not good. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-khan/715159/6 "2015-03-17T02:18:29Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Shame on me for not having seen it yet…but does it go straight from the Botany Bay to Khan’s power play…or is there an intermediate period of exile on Ceti Alpha n/n-1? Neither. The Botany Bay was found well in the backstory by Section 31, and Khan was working for them. He worked for them because he was the only Augment let out of stasis, and he couldn’t act while Section 31 still had them as hostages. Khan’s actually an ‘enemy of my enemy’ at the end while the Enterprise crew tries to stop Section 31’s attempt to start a war with the Klingons while Khan tries to rescue his ‘family’. Then he predictably betrays them. (The Star Trek: Khan comic mini-series actually presents Khan’s history with Section 31 slightly differently - after retrieving the Botany Bay they mindwiped him and changed his face in order to create an identity for him that was loyal to them. They only used the other Augments as hostages when his real memories reasserted themselves.) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-khan/715159/7 "2015-03-17T02:38:53Z")
It’s not a reboot of _Wrath of Khan_, just a shameless scavenger of story elements, like a clip show or any episode of _Full House_. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-khan/715159/8 "2015-03-17T03:56:17Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > It’s not a reboot of _Wrath of Khan_, just a shameless scavenger of story elements, like a clip show or any episode of _Full House_. It’s The Kahn story set in the Bizzaro Universe. Which just happens to be the universe that all the “reboot” Star Trek movies are in. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-khan/715159/9 "2015-03-17T15:15:59Z")
It is not a reboot of Space Seed. None of that happened in this universe and Khan’s rescue happened in the backstory of this movie. This is a reboot of WOK done by someone who has heard of WOK, but does not understand the story or the characters or what people liked about the original or the franchise that it exists in. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-khan/715159/10 "2015-03-17T15:20:08Z")
I thought it was good. I liked it a lot. It may not be “amazing” but neither were the old Trek films, to be honest. Some were pretty good, some were meh. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-khan/715159/11 "2015-03-17T15:36:41Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I thought it was good. I liked it a lot. It may not be “amazing” but neither were the old Trek films, to be honest. Some were pretty good, some were meh. That’s pretty much my feelings as well. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-khan/715159/12 "2015-03-17T15:40:13Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > That’s not shame. It was… not good. I have no sympathy whatsodamnever for y’all who PAID to suffer through it in theatres. There were clear warnings of the approaching horrors all thru the 2009 flick. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-khan/715159/13 "2015-03-17T15:41:27Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I thought it was good. I liked it a lot. It may not be “amazing” but neither were the old Trek films, to be honest. Some were pretty good, some were meh. She is not of the body. I’m sorry but Star Trek Into Darkness is flat out a bad movie. It’s just terrible. Even if it wasn’t “trek” and a total raping of the vision of Roddenberry, it would be a bad movie. It’s just a rotten, no-good, very bad movie. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-khan/715159/14 "2015-03-17T16:11:23Z")
Into Darkness was a decent action / sci-fi movie. The use of Khan was consistent with a reboot - same elements, similar structure, different story. I’m with **Anaamika** and **Leaffan** on this one. In the mean time, it holds a 87% critic / 90% audience fresh ratingon RT, which is genuinely good. To the OP, I don’t consider it a reboot of either SS or WOK - it’s just Khan’s new story in the new version. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-khan/715159/15 "2015-03-17T16:21:13Z")
I liked it pretty well too. Not a great movie, but pretty good by Star Trek standards. I liked the reversal of the death scene from TWOK, with Kirk inside the reactor instead of Spock. Little less thrilled with Kirk’s “kick the delicate reactor until it works right,” philosophy of starship maintenance, but you can’t have everything. It was kind of bullshit that they cast a white guy to play Khan, even if it was Benedict Cumberbatch. (And I recognize the original did basically the same thing with Montalban, but that was close to fifty years ago - we should be doing better with stuff like that by now.) I like the fan theory that that wasn’t Khan at all, it was his [head-band aficionado second in command](http://images.wikia.com/memoryalpha/en/images/a/aa/Joachim.jpg), covering for his leader who was still in one of the stasis pods. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-khan/715159/16 "2015-03-17T16:21:14Z")
I’m a long time Star Trek fan - I am in agreement with **Darth Panda** and **Anaamika** - Yeah- I had some eye roll moments- but I haven’t seen any recent film where i haven’t. If that makes me “not of the body” - then you all are in the wrong body. ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-khan/715159/17 "2015-03-17T16:37:03Z")
I enjoyed it while I was sitting there watching it. It was only later, when the mind has the opportunity to recover, that I started to realize how very little sense it made. And the Kirk/Spock death reversal was unforgivable —an attempt at fanservice that came off more like a giant middle finger. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-khan/715159/18 "2015-03-17T17:21:39Z")
I enjoyed the new Trek films way, way more than I enjoyed _any_ of the old Trek films. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-khan/715159/19 "2015-03-17T17:32:53Z")
It played as an introduction of Khan to me (within this new timeline), that had a lot of theme/character reversals from WoK. I liked it, though it had no where near the emotional weight WoK had. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-khan/715159/20 "2015-03-17T18:17:26Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I liked it pretty well too. Not a great movie, but pretty good by Star Trek standards. I liked the reversal of the death scene from TWOK, with Kirk inside the reactor instead of Spock. Little less thrilled with Kirk’s “kick the delicate reactor until it works right,” philosophy of starship maintenance, but you can’t have everything. > > It was kind of bullshit that they cast a white guy to play Khan, even if it was Benedict Cumberbatch. (And I recognize the original did basically the same thing with Montalban, but that was close to fifty years ago - we should be doing better with stuff like that by now.) I like the fan theory that that wasn’t Khan at all, it was his [head-band aficionado second in command](http://images.wikia.com/memoryalpha/en/images/a/aa/Joachim.jpg), covering for his leader who was still in one of the stasis pods. I thought the theory was that they cosmetically changed Khans appearance. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-khan/715159.md?page=2)