# Star Trek: Most annoying contradictions **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 3, 2001, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-most-annoying-contradictions/79491 "2001-09-03T05:36:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-most-annoying-contradictions/79491/161 "2004-08-06T04:13:50Z")
> [@Fiver](#): > > Well, when Jake Sisko reached adulthood in DS9 he became a reporter. But he was a stringer for the “Federation News Service,” so your point about a lack of civilian institutions is well-taken. Why couldn’t the Federation News Service be a “civilian” institution? After all, the American Broadcasting Corporation isn’t a wing of the federal government. (The Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, though paid for by the federal government, is independently run.) As far as I can tell, nearly every reference to a Federation citizen using money can be explained by a non-Federation economy. I think the question of Federation money was answered pretty definitively in “In the Cards” (DS9) when Nog grouses about how the Federation abandoned a currency-based economic system. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-most-annoying-contradictions/79491/162 "2004-08-06T04:15:15Z")
> [@Gamaliel](#): > > If the Federation doesn’t use credits, why would Quark (no dummy when it comes to financial matters) try to scam a Federation citizen out of credits? There’s no reason why a Federation citizen couldn’t _have_ credits issued by some other government. One presumes that Kim is paying for his drinks somehow. (If he didn’t have any money, he could stop in at the replimat next door.) ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-most-annoying-contradictions/79491/163 "2004-08-06T04:34:20Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > Star Trek is a funny thing: the Federation looks like a really great place at first glance, but the more I think about it, the more it starts to look like a futuristic Soviet Union. I always thought one aspect of the Fedreation that cried out for exploration was its art. The UFP is basically a leisure society: sure, people work and have jobs, but no one worries about basic subsistence anymore. Can you imagine, then, a society in which _everybody_ had the time to write, paint, compose music, learn an instrument, make films? The Federation would be like our society now, but a thousand times worse: an endless cacophony of derivative, third-rate art-product, released in such volume that even attempting to “keep up” with this or that discipline would be ludicrous. No wonder no one on the Enterprise reads or listens to anything created after the 20th century. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-most-annoying-contradictions/79491/164 "2004-08-06T06:17:31Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > As for the money bit in the pizzeria scene of ST4, the exchange was more like: > > Gillian: Let me guess; you don’t carry money in the 24th century? > Kirk: Well, we don’t. > > The impression I get is that Kirk knows what money is, but that actual currency (i.e. coins and notes) has fallen out of use. I can imagine everyone carrying around some kind of bank card and when transactions occur, one person transfers “credits” from one card to another. Sorry, Charlie (X). Gillian’s line was “Don’t tell me, they don’t **use** money in the 23rd century?”. Carrying (or lack thereof) was never mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-most-annoying-contradictions/79491/165 "2004-08-06T07:02:48Z")
Most annoying contradiction? This thread was started 3 years ago, yet new posts are showing up. Are we in a Mobius Loop? ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-most-annoying-contradictions/79491/166 "2004-08-06T12:04:29Z")
> [@](#): > > As far as I can tell, nearly every reference to a Federation citizen using money can be explained by a non-Federation economy. I think the question of Federation money was answered pretty definitively in “In the Cards” (DS9) when Nog grouses about how the Federation abandoned a currency-based economic system. I’ve always figured that when Star Trek people talk about “money” or “currency,” they’re thinking about coins and bank notes and strips of latinum and suchlike. It’s easy to see how natural human arrogance could turn “we have gone cashless” into “we have rejected the very concept of money.” ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-most-annoying-contradictions/79491/167 "2004-08-06T13:04:26Z")
“We can’t break out of it, but I’ll bet you **credits** to Navy beans we can put a dent in it.” – bridge officer what’s-his-face, “Catspaw”, _ST:TOS_ ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-most-annoying-contradictions/79491/168 "2004-08-06T13:08:11Z")
… and I just realized I quoted that very same line from that very same episode 3 years ago in this very thread. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![PookahMacPhellimey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pookahmacphellimey/32/3175_2.png) [@PookahMacPhellimey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PookahMacPhellimey)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-most-annoying-contradictions/79491/169 "2004-08-06T13:36:30Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > My Federation-is-a-totalitarian-regime theory might also explain the conspicuous absence of the media. We don’t want people talking about how we abandoned the Maquis to be slaughtered by the Cardassians, do we? (In my best Gul Dukat-before-he-went-bonkers voice) You mean you still _believe_ all this Federation anti-Cardassian propaganda? We’re a peace-loving cultured species. Portraying us as a brutal invasion force was pure Federation invention. We were only on Bajor for both our planets’ best interests. Your slanderous insinuations are an absolute outrage. ---
**Author:** ![Kilt-wearin\_man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kilt-wearin\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kilt-wearin_man)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-most-annoying-contradictions/79491/170 "2004-08-06T13:38:53Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > **2. Speed in general.** > > There are some specific comments about aspects of this in the preceding posts, but I think, _in general_, speed has always been poorly handled by show. Consider: They usually have a ship, upon arriving at a new system, drop out of warp beyond the outermost planet, and then fly in toward the sun at subwarp (note the occasional shots of Enterprise or whatever passing Jupiter), a trip that could take _days._ If impulse speed is speed from a slow crawl up to “almost lightspeed”, then I have no problem with traversing a solar system in a few minutes - I’m pretty sure it doesn’t take days for sunlight to make it past Pluto in our solar system. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-most-annoying-contradictions/79491/171 "2004-08-06T13:47:17Z")
> [@Kilt-wearin' man](#): > > I’m pretty sure it doesn’t take days for sunlight to make it past Pluto in our solar system. No, but it does take 4 hours. Which is still a good deal longer than “a few minutes.” ---
**Author:** ![Kilt-wearin\_man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kilt-wearin\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kilt-wearin_man)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-most-annoying-contradictions/79491/172 "2004-08-06T14:24:36Z")
> [@tracer](#): > > No, but it does take 4 hours. Which is still a good deal longer than “a few minutes.” Yeah, but it’s hardly “3/4 impulse, Mr Data, and call me in a week when we reach the planet”… ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-most-annoying-contradictions/79491/173 "2004-08-06T16:15:43Z")
Full impulse is 0.25c so it would take a starship sixteen hours to reach the sun from Pluto’s orbit; Fifteen and a half to reach Earth. ---
**Author:** ![Kilt-wearin\_man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kilt-wearin\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kilt-wearin_man)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-most-annoying-contradictions/79491/174 "2004-08-06T16:24:12Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > Full impulse is 0.25c so it would take a starship sixteen hours to reach the sun from Pluto’s orbit; Fifteen and a half to reach Earth. Where’d this info come from? I don’t remember the speed of “Full Impulse” ever being stated on any episode or movie. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-most-annoying-contradictions/79491/175 "2004-08-06T16:33:06Z")
The warp speed chart from the _Star Trek Encyclopedia_. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-most-annoying-contradictions/79491/176 "2004-08-06T16:37:35Z")
> [@Master Control](#): > > The warp speed chart from the _Star Trek Encyclopedia_. Uh. That was me. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-most-annoying-contradictions/79491/177 "2004-08-06T16:52:56Z")
> [@Max Carnage](#): > > Why would momentum be a factor in transporting? Either you physically disintergrate an object, zap the particles to the final location, and reintegrate said particles back into their original orientation (at which point you’ve changed momentum by moving the partcles ina different direction); or you destroy the original and rebuild it a la replication (where there’d have been no original movement of the new item anyway) > > Not sure how transporters work but I’m pretty sure it’s one of the two methods. You may be right. But as I said, it stuck out to me when I first saw the episode because I felt sure that at some point, ST had explained that you can’t transport moving objects. It certainly doesn’t jive with the way everybody stops and stands perfectly still before they’re beamed out, does it? ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-most-annoying-contradictions/79491/178 "2004-08-06T17:13:04Z")
In “The Most Toys”, O’Brien transports Data while he is firing a disruptor and is able to stop the discharge before he materializes. If that’s possible, I don’t see why something as mundane as stopping momentum wouldn’t be. ---
**Author:** ![Sean\_Factotum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Sean\_Factotum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sean_Factotum)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-most-annoying-contradictions/79491/179 "2004-08-06T17:39:42Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > You may be right. But as I said, it stuck out to me when I first saw the episode because I felt sure that at some point, ST had explained that you can’t transport moving objects. It certainly doesn’t jive with the way everybody stops and stands perfectly still before they’re beamed out, does it? Except for the _ST:TOS_ movie (_“The Search For Spock”_?) when Kirk can be heard continuing the sentence he started at initiation of beam-up before they rematerialize onboard the ship. ---
**Author:** ![Spudo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@Spudo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spudo)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-most-annoying-contradictions/79491/180 "2004-08-06T18:15:17Z")
I’ve always viewed the Federation economy as very similar to the Culture’s economy from Iain M. Banks’s novels. Within the Federation/Culture there is no need for exchanging currency for anything, but both entities have funds (in the Culture’s case it’s rumoured they have the largest amount of currency available in the galaxy) for trade with outside groups. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-most-annoying-contradictions/79491.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-most-annoying-contradictions/79491.md?page=10)