# Star Trek: Shouldn't Vulcans' First Contact have been in 1986? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** star-trek-paramount\ **Created:** [August 24, 2023, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-shouldnt-vulcans-first-contact-have-been-in-1986/989036 "2023-08-24T13:55:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2023, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-shouldnt-vulcans-first-contact-have-been-in-1986/989036/1 "2023-08-24T13:55:44Z")
So, SIGO and I are watching all on the Original Series’ motion pictures in order, recently wrapping up [ST4: _The One with The Whales_](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_IV:_The_Voyage_Home)not my favorite, but what the hey . . When I noticed a possible disjoint in some timelines. In [ST[8]: _First Contact_](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_First_Contact), the jist of the conclusion is that in 2063, Zefram Cochrane makes the first Earth-originating warp flight, leaving a warp signature that a passing Vulcan ship notices with their trademark, unemotional “lolz wut?” But, having watched ST4 again (which takes place in 1986) Kirk ‘n’ crew, in a captured Klingon Bird ‘o’ Prey, open the throttle to warp speed while _endoatmospheric_ with their purloined pisces. They then zip around the sun based on Spock’s "best guess’, delivering a cetacean cargo to the future, thus saving the day. But with all this warping around in the 1980s–wouldn’t this have gotten the Vulcans’ attention 77 years _earlier_? Tripler . . . or are the Vulcans just watching us _now_ waiting for confirmation on that ‘fluke’? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2023, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-shouldnt-vulcans-first-contact-have-been-in-1986/989036/2 "2023-08-24T13:58:56Z")
I think the Vulcans happened to have a ship nearby for Cochrane, but not in the 80s. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2023, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-shouldnt-vulcans-first-contact-have-been-in-1986/989036/3 "2023-08-24T14:06:12Z")
> [@Tripler](#): > > Vulcan ship notices with their trademark, unemotional “lolz wut?” Just piping in to say that I love this line in your post. ---
**Author:** ![jnglmassiv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f07891/32.png) [@jnglmassiv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jnglmassiv)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2023, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-shouldnt-vulcans-first-contact-have-been-in-1986/989036/4 "2023-08-24T14:08:25Z")
Maybe these ‘warp signatures’ also identify the source of propulsion. The Vulcans might ignore a known warpdrive type but explore a new (though primative) signature. Like how a sonar/hydrophone operator recognizes ‘the usual’ shipping traffic and is listening for other sounds. Also, warp mufflers probably improved a lot over time. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2023, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-shouldnt-vulcans-first-contact-have-been-in-1986/989036/5 "2023-08-24T14:10:31Z")
They came to investigate, saw a ship that had to be from the future, picked up a half-Vulcan, half-human person on sensors, paused for a moment and looked at each other, recited “The Vulcan Science Directorate has determined that time travel is impossible,” and decided to log it as a sensor glitch and go home. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2023, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-shouldnt-vulcans-first-contact-have-been-in-1986/989036/6 "2023-08-24T14:13:31Z")
Also, if they had come to investigate the earlier warp signature, there wouldn’t have been a ship to find, since it had immediately traveled back to their own time. In the case of Zephram, when the Vulcans scanned for the ship (which we can surmise they did, since they land right in Zephram’s camp), they’d have found the ship right there. So in the Whales Era, they probably would have chalked it up to a sensor glitch, since even a brief scan of the Earth of that era would show it’s clearly a pre-warp civilization. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2023, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-shouldnt-vulcans-first-contact-have-been-in-1986/989036/7 "2023-08-24T14:15:30Z")
Don’t forget that the _Enterprise_ had visited Earth’s past a couple times prior to _The Voyage Home_, at least one time using the same slingshot maneuver. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2023, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-shouldnt-vulcans-first-contact-have-been-in-1986/989036/8 "2023-08-24T14:16:27Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I think the Vulcans happened to have a ship nearby for Cochrane, but not in the 80s. This is the correct answer. From the movie: > COCHRANE: So, what is it you want me to do? > RIKER: Simple. Conduct your warp flight tomorrow morning just as you planned. > COCHRANE: Why tomorrow morning? > RIKER: Because at eleven o’clock an alien ship will begin passing through this solar system. > COCHRANE: Alien? You mean extra-terrestrials. More bad guys? > TROI: Good guys. They’re on a survey mission. They have no interest in Earth. Too primitive. > COCHRANE: Oh! > RIKER: Doctor, tomorrow morning when they detect the warp signature from your ship and realise that humans have discovered how to travel faster than light, they decide to alter their course and make first contact with Earth, right here. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.E](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.e/32/8932_2.png) [@Mr.E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.E)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2023, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-shouldnt-vulcans-first-contact-have-been-in-1986/989036/9 "2023-08-24T18:57:47Z")
Now that I think about it, it was a pretty lucky break that the Vulcans happened to be nearby during Cochrane’s first flight. Humanity probably would have encountered an alien civilization eventually but I don’t think the Vulcans were keeping close tabs on nearby pre-warp cultures the way the Federation would later on. I can’t think of a time Star Trek did “Random culture’s first deep space exploration mission encounters alien starship” as an episode (maybe in Enterprise?), but they ought to. That would be as interesting a concept as the Federation initiating first contact after a culture’s first successful warp drive test. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2023, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-shouldnt-vulcans-first-contact-have-been-in-1986/989036/10 "2023-08-24T22:00:40Z")
There’s something similar in an episode of Strange New Worlds. Only there it’s not a warp flight but a warp bomb. ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2023, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-shouldnt-vulcans-first-contact-have-been-in-1986/989036/11 "2023-08-24T22:42:30Z")
I set for stun, an aim to please @RitterSport. 😃 > [@ekedolphin](#): > > Don’t forget that the _Enterprise_ had visited Earth’s past a couple times prior to _The Voyage Home_, at least one time using the same slingshot maneuver I’d forgotten that–I just don’t remember which episode(s) . . . > [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > This is the correct answer. From the movie: ::derp:: I hadn’t seen ST(8) in awhile, and had forgotten about _this_ too. . . > [@Mr.E](#): > > . . . it was a pretty lucky break that the Vulcans happened to be nearby during Cochrane’s first flight. Why did I think it was a specific investigative flight the Vulcans took? > [@jnglmassiv](#): > > Also, warp mufflers probably improved a lot over time. There’d been reports of dilithium catalytic converter theft in the Klingon Empire, from what I’d heard. But on the level, I thought I’d seen in _TNG_ and _Voyager_ that past-flown warp signatures were detectable? Maybe not on the level of months after the flight, but with a presence that lasted until it decayed away (half-life sorta thing). Did I mis-remember that too? Tripler I think I need to rewatch a lot of stuff. . . ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2023, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-shouldnt-vulcans-first-contact-have-been-in-1986/989036/12 "2023-08-24T22:53:24Z")
Pisces??? ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2023, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-shouldnt-vulcans-first-contact-have-been-in-1986/989036/13 "2023-08-24T23:31:32Z")
> [@Mr.E](#): > > I can’t think of a time Star Trek did “Random culture’s first deep space exploration mission encounters alien starship” as an episode (maybe in Enterprise?), but they ought to. That would be as interesting a concept as the Federation initiating first contact after a culture’s first successful warp drive test. That’s pretty close to Enterprise’s _Dear Doctor_ > ARCHER: Are there any inhabited systems nearby? > T’POL: There’s a Minshara class planet less than a light year away. > HOSHI: The ship’s not answering our hails, Captain. > REED: It’s definitely pre-warp, sir. It could be unmanned. Maybe a probe of some kind. > ARCHER: Any biosigns? > T’POL: Two, but they’re very faint. > ARCHER: Bring it into Launch Bay two, and tell Doctor Phlox he might have a couple of patients. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2023, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-shouldnt-vulcans-first-contact-have-been-in-1986/989036/14 "2023-08-24T23:54:22Z")
Are we really asking for consistency in Star Trek? 🙂 For that matter, Vulcan has been checking in on earth since at least our early atomic days, with at least one ship crashing on Earth (canonically) in 1957 - Complete with living crew who operated clandestinely with the locals. > **[Carbon Creek (Star Trek: Enterprise)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_Creek_(Star_Trek:_Enterprise))** > > "Carbon Creek" is the second episode of the second season of the science fiction television series Star Trek: Enterprise, the 28th episode overall. It first aired on September 25, 2002, on the UPN in the United States. Only three of the main cast appear in this episode. It features a flashback story, and T'Pol tells how first contact between humans and Vulcans actually happened far earlier than the date officially celebrated. Three Vulcans, including her great-grandmother T'Mir, also played by Jo... But yes, Vulcan didn’t keep an actual ongoing full time surveillance of the system, and probably reduced it’s reviews after the various World Wars prior to Cochrane’s time. And we’re leaving out all the timeline changes that could be considered a consequence of Enterprise’s Temporal Cold War that could (although never stated) be used to handwave away almost _any_ temporal discrepancies. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-shouldnt-vulcans-first-contact-have-been-in-1986/989036/15 "2023-08-25T00:45:11Z")
> [@Mr.E](#): > > …I can’t think of a time Star Trek did “Random culture’s first deep space exploration mission encounters alien starship” as an episode (maybe in Enterprise?), but they ought to. That would be as interesting a concept as the Federation initiating first contact after a culture’s first successful warp drive test. I run a _ST:TOS_-era online RPG set aboard one of the _Enterprise_’s sister ships, and that’s what happened in one of our very first missions. Good times. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-shouldnt-vulcans-first-contact-have-been-in-1986/989036/16 "2023-08-25T00:48:15Z")
> [@Tripler](#): > > > [@ekedolphin](#): > > > > Don’t forget that the _Enterprise_ had visited Earth’s past a couple times prior to _The Voyage Home_, at least one time using the same slingshot maneuver > > I’d forgotten that–I just don’t remember which episode(s) . . . “Tomorrow Is Yesterday.” ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-shouldnt-vulcans-first-contact-have-been-in-1986/989036/17 "2023-08-25T04:51:55Z")
> [@Mr.E](#): > > I can’t think of a time Star Trek did “Random culture’s first deep space exploration mission encounters alien starship” as an episode (maybe in Enterprise?), but they ought to. That would be as interesting a concept as the Federation initiating first contact after a culture’s first successful warp drive test. ⁢ There was at least an episode where the TNG crew were investigating a world that was very close to achieving warp flight. In fact, the episode’s name was “First Contact”—not to be confused by the TNG movie of the same name. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-shouldnt-vulcans-first-contact-have-been-in-1986/989036/18 "2023-08-25T05:01:36Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > “Tomorrow Is Yesterday.” Also, “[Assignment: Earth](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Assignment:_Earth_(episode)).” ---
**Author:** ![Mr.E](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.e/32/8932_2.png) [@Mr.E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.E)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-shouldnt-vulcans-first-contact-have-been-in-1986/989036/19 "2023-08-25T14:17:34Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > There was at least an episode where the TNG crew were investigating a world that was very close to achieving warp flight. In fact, the episode’s name was “First Contact”—not to be confused by the TNG movie of the same name. Yeah, it seems like Federation policy is to keep a tab on planets that are close to warp travel, especially ones inside Federation space. That even becomes one of the big jokes of Lower Decks. Standard “Second Contact” procedure is once a planet achieves warp drive the Federation shows up to help fix all their problems with Federation technology and lobby them to start the application process. That level of care in researching pre-warp civilizations seems very useful to avoid situations like the one described in Star Trek Prodigy. The Vau N’Akat took First Contact extremely poorly, plunging their planet into civil war and destruction. For some reason, the survivors blamed the Federation for this, even though their only crime was showing up and being friendly to a newly space-faring people. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-shouldnt-vulcans-first-contact-have-been-in-1986/989036/20 "2023-08-25T18:30:49Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I think the Vulcans happened to have a ship nearby for Cochrane, but not in the 80s. This is exactly it. > [@Mr.E](#): > > Now that I think about it, it was a pretty lucky break that the Vulcans happened to be nearby during Cochrane’s first flight. Humanity probably would have encountered an alien civilization eventually but I don’t think the Vulcans were keeping close tabs on nearby pre-warp cultures the way the Federation would later on. IIRC, Vulcan was the closest major spacefaring civilization to Earth, and so was likely to be the first contact anyway. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-shouldnt-vulcans-first-contact-have-been-in-1986/989036.md?page=2)