# Star Trek Squire of Gothos, Speculation **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 28, 2010, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-squire-of-gothos-speculation/548330 "2010-07-28T17:27:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-squire-of-gothos-speculation/548330/1 "2010-07-28T17:27:56Z")
[![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/sqQa1Xhu9cQ/hqdefault.jpg "Classic Star Trek: The Squire of Gothos") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqQa1Xhu9cQ) Trelane the ultimate naughty child. Gives Kirk and company fits. šŸ˜ƒ This episode is so much fun. Swashbuckling sword fights, duels, and a pretty Ensign in a ball gown. The look on Kirks face when he realizes that he was a childā€™s plaything is priceless. šŸ˜ƒ I wonderā€¦ could he be a very young Q? Certainly it seems the TNG writers based Q on Trelane? The similarities are so obvious. Care to Speculate? ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-squire-of-gothos-speculation/548330/2 "2010-07-28T17:30:58Z")
He could be a very old Q, looking like a child and acting like one, but I donā€™t think he could be a young Q, because Q-junior is the first new Q in a ā€œlong time,ā€ isnā€™t he? Although time is relative to noncorporial beings that can jump back and forward through itā€¦ So maybe heā€™s a few generations after Q-Junior, but yukking it up in TOS era. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-squire-of-gothos-speculation/548330/3 "2010-07-28T17:32:39Z")
Itā€™s almost canon that he was. Peter David based a whole novel on the concept (ā€œ[Q-Squared](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q-Squared)ā€) ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-squire-of-gothos-speculation/548330/4 "2010-07-28T17:34:26Z")
I had understood it to be Canon that yes, Trelaine was a young being of Qā€™s ā€œraceā€. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-squire-of-gothos-speculation/548330/5 "2010-07-28T17:35:08Z")
The Squire used a mechanical device for some reason, and Q of TNG is never shown to need one. While I suppose the mechanical aid is only needed by the young who havenā€™t fully developed their powers (or understanding of the natural laws of the Universe) yet, it still could be seen as an argument against. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-squire-of-gothos-speculation/548330/6 "2010-07-28T17:36:17Z")
> [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](#): > > I had understood it to be Canon that yes, Trelaine was a young being of Qā€™s ā€œraceā€. Depends on how you define _canon_. Itā€™s never been established on-screen that Iā€™m aware of, but itā€™s also something that pretty much every fan of both TOS & TNG thinks likely. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-squire-of-gothos-speculation/548330/7 "2010-07-28T17:36:44Z")
But his parents didnā€™t need any aids, so that could be an argument for. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-squire-of-gothos-speculation/548330/8 "2010-07-28T17:48:06Z")
I saw Squire of Gothos a few nights ago on a local station. I hadnā€™t seen it in a decade. I was amazed at how Q like Trelane was. There were several aliens in the original series that I wanted to revist in TNG or the other series. Remember the planet that will soon be invaded by klingons? Kirk goes to warn them and setup defenses. The people refuse to protect themselves. They are appalled by violence. Turns out they are highly advanced and stop the war. I always wanted to learn more about that race. Itā€™s a shame none of the series revisited them. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-squire-of-gothos-speculation/548330/9 "2010-07-28T17:51:39Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I saw Squire of Gothos a few nights ago on a local station. I hadnā€™t seen it in a decade. I was amazed at how Q like Trelane was. Wild guess and without researching it but maybe Q was modeled after Trelane. ETA:[From Memory Alpha](http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Q) > [@](#): > > In an interview, John de Lancie drew parallels between Q and the character Trelane from the TOS episode ā€œThe Squire of Gothosā€, believing that Roddenberry explored his storehouse of effective creations in writing The Next Generation and found one that would turn out to be highly successful again in TNG. [2] In the novel Q-Squared, Trelane was revealed to be a member of the Q Continuum, as a sort of predecessor to the individual Q. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-squire-of-gothos-speculation/548330/10 "2010-07-28T17:52:29Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > But his parents didnā€™t need any aids, so that could be an argument for. Well, neither did the Organians, the Metrons, or the Thasians. Lack of instrumentality is not proof of Q either. But I see that I am arguing in circles. Sorry. šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-squire-of-gothos-speculation/548330/11 "2010-07-28T18:09:38Z")
This thread is Absolutely Smashing! ---
**Author:** ![Spatial\_Rift\_47](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a8b319/32.png) [@Spatial\_Rift\_47](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spatial_Rift_47)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-squire-of-gothos-speculation/548330/12 "2010-07-28T19:48:25Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Remember the planet that will soon be invaded by klingons? Kirk goes to warn them and setup defenses. The people refuse to protect themselves. They are appalled by violence. Turns out they are highly advanced and stop the war. > > I always wanted to learn more about that race. Itā€™s a shame none of the series revisited them. That would be the Organians. They arenā€™t seen directly (except apparently in Enterprise), but the consequences of their actions are far-reaching in later episodes and movies. In ā€œErrand of Mercyā€, they enforced the Treaty of Organia between the Federation and the Klingon Empire. It was this treaty that established the Neutral Zone, which came up time and again later. Specifically, in ā€œThe Trouble with Tribblesā€, the treatyā€™s provisions regarding development of contested planets and sharing of shore leave facilities formed the setup for the entire plot of the episode. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-squire-of-gothos-speculation/548330/13 "2010-07-28T19:58:29Z")
> [@Spatial\_Rift\_47](#): > > > [@aceplace57](#): > > > > Remember the planet that will soon be invaded by klingons? Kirk goes to warn them and setup defenses. The people refuse to protect themselves. They are appalled by violence. Turns out they are highly advanced and stop the war. > > > > I always wanted to learn more about that race. Itā€™s a shame none of the series revisited them. > > That would be the Organians. They arenā€™t seen directly (except apparently in Enterprise), but the consequences of their actions are far-reaching in later episodes and movies. In ā€œErrand of Mercyā€, they enforced the Treaty of Organia between the Federation and the Klingon Empire. It was this treaty that established the Neutral Zone, which came up time and again later. Specifically, in ā€œThe Trouble with Tribblesā€, the treatyā€™s provisions regarding development of contested planets and sharing of shore leave facilities formed the setup for the entire plot of the episode. The Organian Peace Treaty arose from the events of ā€œErrand of Mercyā€ - the Organians were clearly unknown as being powerful before then, or else both the Federation and Klingons would have avoided them. I assume that they had been contacted and were thought to be a race in stasis as their disguise. The Neutral Zone was established after the Romulan War, a century before TOS, and had nothing to do with the Organians. There was clearly no neutral zone between the Federation and the Klingon Empire. And good for Gerrold for actually recognizing that previous episodes existed, unlike most of the writers. Blishā€™s ST novel described an attempt by the Klingons to get the Organians out of the picture. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-squire-of-gothos-speculation/548330/14 "2010-07-28T19:59:05Z")
Anyone notice how both Trelane and Q were flamingly effeminate? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-squire-of-gothos-speculation/548330/15 "2010-07-28T20:07:47Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > The Neutral Zone was established after the Romulan War, a century before TOS, and had nothing to do with the Organians. There was clearly no neutral zone between the Federation and the Klingon Empire. Why clearly? [Star Trek VI is full of dialogue about a neutral zone between the Federation and the Klingon Empire.](http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Neutral_zone) > [@](#): > > When Captain Hikaru Sulu offered assistance to the Klingon High Command following the destruction of Praxis, he was told by Brigadier General Kerla that their assistance was not required and to ā€œobey treaty stipulations and remain outside the Neutral Zone.ā€ The neutral zone was again mentioned during the beginning of negotiations between the Klingon Empire and the Federation which led to the Khitomer Accords. Klingon Chancellor Gorkon proposed a peace treaty that would include dismantling of space stations and star bases along the neutral zone. On Rura Penthe, Kirk confessed that he was terrified of the idea, that there would be no more neutral zone. (Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country) Itā€™s pretty clear from context there that they arenā€™t talking about the Romulan Neutral Zone, since that was effectively still a legitimate treaty zone during the run of, at least, ST:TNG. ---
**Author:** ![Rrose\_Selavy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bcef8e/32.png) [@Rrose\_Selavy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rrose_Selavy)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-squire-of-gothos-speculation/548330/16 "2010-07-28T20:32:57Z")
Whenever I see that original ST episode I always think of [this guy](http://youlookhungry.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/2_liberace6.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-squire-of-gothos-speculation/548330/17 "2010-07-28T20:37:24Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Anyone notice how both Trelane and Q were flamingly effeminate? Now you know what the Q stands for. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-squire-of-gothos-speculation/548330/18 "2010-07-28T21:03:45Z")
> [@Todderbob](#): > > He could be a very old Q, looking like a child and acting like one, but I donā€™t think he could be a young Q, because Q-junior is the first new Q in a ā€œlong time,ā€ isnā€™t he?. Apart from the Enterprise crew-member in TNG who discovers sheā€™s the offspring of Q parents. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-squire-of-gothos-speculation/548330/19 "2010-07-29T00:32:32Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > > [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](#): > > > > I had understood it to be Canon that yes, Trelaine was a young being of Qā€™s ā€œraceā€. > > Depends on how you define _canon_. Itā€™s never been established on-screen that Iā€™m aware of, but itā€™s also something that pretty much every fan of both TOS & TNG thinks likely. NOT ME!!! Actually he probably is but whatā€™s a Star Trek thread without a pointless argument? šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-squire-of-gothos-speculation/548330/20 "2010-07-29T00:39:40Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > The Squire used a mechanical device for some reason, and Q of TNG is never shown to need one. > > While I suppose the mechanical aid is only needed by the young who havenā€™t fully developed their powers (or understanding of the natural laws of the Universe) yet, it still could be seen as an argument against. Yeah, training wheels. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-squire-of-gothos-speculation/548330.md?page=2)