# Star Trek: The Final Frontier Has a Bum Reputation **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 19, 2003, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-final-frontier-has-a-bum-reputation/182855 "2003-06-19T04:04:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2003, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-final-frontier-has-a-bum-reputation/182855/21 "2003-06-19T19:31:38Z")
When Kirk, McCoy and Spock are locked in the brig, Kirk pushes a button on the wall and a toilet pops out, which he sits on (lid down). I thought the sign said “Do not use while in spacedock.” But I’m not watching again to find out. Okay I would but I don’t have the DVD here at work ---
**Author:** ![Greenback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/2bfe46/32.png) [@Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greenback)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2003, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-final-frontier-has-a-bum-reputation/182855/22 "2003-06-19T20:09:06Z")
I agree with the consensus that ST:V wasn’t the best but it did have some quotables. “Do you not recognize a jailbreak when you see one?” and “I know this ship like the back of my hand”…_BONK_ OK, the second belittles Scotty to the point of slapstick but he was too fat to have him believably avoid being captured on his own merit. I thought TMP sprang from the writer’s being intimidated at making a 2 hours flick so they took an episode and stretched out scenes like Kirk’s arrival at Enterprise, and the flight into VGER (I was actually hoping VGER would just put them out of their misery!!). I’m going to hijack a bit and ask: Is anyone else disappointed the way Worf’s character has been degraded from Klingon warrior to the Schwarzeneggerish phrase “Assimilate this”-FC. Or the way he pouted in FC when Picard apologizes in the end. This has really been nagging at me and the more I think of it, the more disappointed I become. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2003, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-final-frontier-has-a-bum-reputation/182855/23 "2003-06-19T20:29:13Z")
TMP _WAS_ an episode stretched into a movie. Several sources for hard core Trekkers will fill you in on this. Roddenberry was trying to get _Star Trek II_ launched on TV but it didn’t happen (for various reasons). So, they took all the stuff they had already worked on for a TV pilot and got the go ahead to shoot the film. So, TMP flows like a made for TV movie in places and is filled with nonsense filler in others. The one character they really missed the boat on in the movies is Reginold Barclay (Broccoli). Coulda had class, coulda benna contender. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-final-frontier-has-a-bum-reputation/182855/24 "2003-06-20T01:58:20Z")
TMP has nice music, though. 'course, you could just buy the soundtrack and leave it at that. How ya liking those KUDOS, NCB? ST5 has a Bum reputation? I don’t recall seeing anyone’s bum. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-final-frontier-has-a-bum-reputation/182855/25 "2003-06-20T03:41:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NoClueBoy \* > \*\*TMP _WAS_ an episode stretched into a movie. Several sources for hard core Trekkers will fill you in on this. Roddenberry was trying to get _Star Trek II_ launched on TV but it didn’t happen (for various reasons). So, they took all the stuff they had already worked on for a TV pilot and got the go ahead to shoot the film. > > So, TMP flows like a made for TV movie in places and is filled with nonsense filler in others. > > The one character they really missed the boat on in the movies is Reginold Barclay (Broccoli). Coulda had class, coulda benna contender. \*\* You forget something. In one of Roddenberry’s brighter moments, he’d managed to con Harlan Ellison into writing the script for the film, only to have Ellison get pissed off at a studio executive and storm out. Instead of trying to figure out a way to calm Ellison down and get him to crank out a script, they dusted off the old “Nomad” script, made some changes to it and called it The Motion Picture. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-final-frontier-has-a-bum-reputation/182855/26 "2003-06-20T03:42:56Z")
Forgot something, myself. Many of the elements from Ellison’s script ended up in “All Good Things.” ---
**Author:** ![FabioClone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5f8ce5/32.png) [@FabioClone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FabioClone)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-final-frontier-has-a-bum-reputation/182855/27 "2003-06-20T05:05:04Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by vivalostwages_ > ST5 has a Bum reputation? I don’t recall seeing anyone’s bum. Perhaps you missed Uhura’s fan dance. This element alone catapults ST5 down into the miry pit of badness. I mean, come on. Was that really necessary? And if that wasn’t enough, they had that implied Uhura/Scotty sex thing in sickbay. Now I want you to vividly imagine fifty-year old Uhura and fat Scotty going at it like geriatric bunnies. I hope they release a director’s cut with the deleted scene! ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-final-frontier-has-a-bum-reputation/182855/28 "2003-06-20T05:42:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by FabioClone \* > \*\*Perhaps you missed Uhura’s fan dance. This element alone catapults ST5 down into the miry pit of badness. > > I mean, come on. Was that really necessary? And if that wasn’t enough, they had that implied Uhura/Scotty sex thing in sickbay. Now I want you to vividly imagine fifty-year old Uhura and fat Scotty going at it like geriatric bunnies. > > I hope they release a director’s cut with the deleted scene! \*\* It’s not mentioned in her bio at [imdb](http://us.imdb.com/Bio?Nichols,%20Nichelle), but Nichelle Nichols got her _start_ as a professional dancer. She was in the original cast of _West Side Story_ on Broadway, IIRC. Nichelle Nichols’s is a _very_ talented actress, and has sadly only had a few opportunities to display her talents on screen. The dance scene was a “gimmie” for her, so that she could say, “The old girl’s still got it!” I, for one, don’t mind the scene at all. (Additionally, she’s the _only_ member of the TOS cast to ever work for NASA.) (Admittedly, the romance between her and Scotty wasn’t the high point of her career.) ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-final-frontier-has-a-bum-reputation/182855/29 "2003-06-20T05:45:12Z")
I’m pretty sure it wasn’t her _talent_ that he was objecting to. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-final-frontier-has-a-bum-reputation/182855/30 "2003-06-20T05:51:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aesiron \* > \*\*I’m pretty sure it wasn’t her _talent_ that he was objecting to. 😉 \*\* Next, you’ll be telling me that Tina Turner _isn’t_ sexy any more! ::Wanders off muttering about kids these days.:: ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-final-frontier-has-a-bum-reputation/182855/31 "2003-06-20T05:52:38Z")
Tina Turner was sexy? 😕 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-final-frontier-has-a-bum-reputation/182855/32 "2003-06-20T05:59:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aesiron \* > \*\*Tina Turner was sexy? 😕 > > 😃 \*\* Considering she’s in her [sixties](http://www.tina-turner.com/), and probably fit enough to kick your ass, I’d have to say that qualifies as sexy. If it doesn’t, I’m _not_ going to tell her that. (You can do it. I wanna watch her kick yer ass!) ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-final-frontier-has-a-bum-reputation/182855/33 "2003-06-20T06:03:15Z")
Dude, Mary Kate and Ashley Olsen\* could probably kick my ass. I’m a Trekkie, for cryin’ out loud… it isn’t like I get out much. 😛 \*I don’t get the love for them either. Ew. ---
**Author:** ![Grousser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9d8465/32.png) [@Grousser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grousser)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-final-frontier-has-a-bum-reputation/182855/34 "2003-06-20T07:15:18Z")
How did you people come out talking 'bout Tina Turner and other girls in a Trek thread? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-final-frontier-has-a-bum-reputation/182855/35 "2003-06-20T08:22:11Z")
I think I’ve fallen into the mirror universe here. To wit: “Trek V wasn’t so bad, but Generations and Insurrection suck.” ??? What is _wrong_ with you people? :eek ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-final-frontier-has-a-bum-reputation/182855/36 "2003-06-20T10:32:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CaptMurdock \* > \*\*I think I’ve fallen into the mirror universe here. > > To wit: “Trek V wasn’t so bad, but Generations and Insurrection suck.” ??? > > What is _wrong_ with you people?\*\* I’ll straighten it out for you **CaptMurdock** … _Star Trek V_, _Generations_, and _Insurrection_ **all** suck. And so does TMP. Better? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laughing_Lagomorph)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-final-frontier-has-a-bum-reputation/182855/37 "2003-06-20T12:42:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aesiron \* > \*_Dude, Mary Kate and Ashley Olsen_ could probably kick my ass… > \*\* Well, together, sure. But I think you could take them one at a time. They’re kind of scrawny. ---
**Author:** ![Zap\_Rowsdower](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3da27b/32.png) [@Zap\_Rowsdower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zap_Rowsdower)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-final-frontier-has-a-bum-reputation/182855/38 "2003-06-20T12:48:11Z")
I agree with _Insurection_ and _Generations_, but V is the worst. There are so many problems with it, and I would not call myself a huge Trek fan. The main thing that bothered me was [spoiler]The relationship between Scotty and Uhura. What was that about? It was never hinted at before or since. It just felt oddly out of place. Next is the scene where Scotty knocks himself out. That was just stupid and pointless. The one scene I liked that stands out is after the row your boat, they are laying there and Spock says, after pondering it for a while, “Captain, life is not a dream.” This was funny and fit in with the character.[/spoiler] As for TMP, I agree it is not good, but I do like the special effects and the music and every so often in the right mood, I can watch it and enjoy it. I cannot say that about V. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-final-frontier-has-a-bum-reputation/182855/39 "2003-06-20T13:00:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tuckerfan \* > \*\*You forget something. In one of Roddenberry’s brighter moments, he’d managed to con Harlan Ellison into writing the script for the film, only to have Ellison get pissed off at a studio executive and storm out. Instead of trying to figure out a way to calm Ellison down and get him to crank out a script, they dusted off the old “Nomad” script, made some changes to it and called it The Motion Picture. \*\* Paramount used the “member of a reptile race from an alternate Earth where the K-T event never happened goes back in tuime to destroy human civilization” with the Borg in **ST: First Contact**. I’m surprised Ellison didn’t sue. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-final-frontier-has-a-bum-reputation/182855/40 "2003-06-20T16:07:33Z")
The old “member of a reptile race from an alternate Earth where the K-T event never happened goes back in time to destroy human civilization” plot device. That’s the oldest trick in the book! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-final-frontier-has-a-bum-reputation/182855.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-final-frontier-has-a-bum-reputation/182855.md?page=3)