# Star Trek -- the "I saw it" thread \*\*SPOILERS\*\* **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 7, 2009, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640 "2009-05-07T08:13:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/381 "2009-05-15T00:45:26Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > Then why did you bother to reply? For your edification and illumination, of course. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/382 "2009-05-15T00:58:44Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > For your edification and illumination, of course. Whoa…think pretty highly of yourself, don’t you? You ever consider acting as a career? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/383 "2009-05-15T01:23:48Z")
Well, if you don’t want sarcastic replies, don’t ask stupid questions. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/384 "2009-05-15T02:19:35Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > As an incidental note, I figure the whole point of the 25-year thing was so James Kirk could be marked as a man of destiny. I don’t recall Kirk’s father ever appearing or being mentioned before in any canon, let alone described as a heroic Starfleet officer from whom James must have (in the simplistic world of movies) inherited some kind of unshakable heroism. > > I only mention this because I wonder how the people of [Riverside, Iowa](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riverside,_Iowa#Future_birthplace_of_Captain_Kirk) feel now that their “Future Birthplace of Captain James T. Kirk” plaque has been retconned out of significance. Better than the residents of Vulcan, Alberta, methinks. And as for the codes, I assumed Nero wanted them in the interest of stealth. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/385 "2009-05-15T02:35:35Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > Better than the residents of Vulcan, Alberta, methinks. Yikes, I forgot about them, and I’ve _been_ to Vulcan, AB. Got some fridge magnets as souvenirs. I bet it wasn’t happy time on the prairie the night the movie opened. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/386 "2009-05-15T02:42:57Z")
It was. Bruce Greenwood showed up in the town and took a busload of residents into the Big City to see it a day early. I hear they had a great time. And so did I. Loved it. Plot holes abound but I don’t care. This is a great world they’ve created. I’m thrilled at the idea of two more movies, although I’d like a better thought-out script as much as anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/387 "2009-05-15T02:57:02Z")
> [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](#): > > Got it: 12091. > > ◄12091 > to be more exact. Thanks! Star Trek 90211 comes right after 90210! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/388 "2009-05-15T02:58:05Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, if you don’t want sarcastic replies, don’t ask stupid questions. Okay, I might have to change my sig… ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/389 "2009-05-15T03:00:45Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Now, that’s just cruel. I seriously wonder why they don’t have some of those fellows as technical advisers. Clear up thepulsed phasers for example, or jumping to warp near the space station. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/390 "2009-05-15T06:36:02Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > They were miners, weren’t they? > > He trashed six Federation starships in a matter of minutes and dozens of Klingon vessels with no apparent damage whatsoever. Yes, they did- in _a mining ship_. Why does even a Romulan mining ship have the firepower of a dozen battleships? Even a mining ship of today would be sunk by a fleet from Sir Francis Drake time, and the different wasn;t 400 years in tech. The film made no sense at all, over and over and over. It wasnt plot holes, the whole entire plot, beginning to end, was a giant black hole. It is not that it violated canon, it was that it was simply a bad film, enlivened by a few good performances\*, some nice action and a lot of throwaway in-jokes. - Except- Worst. Spock. Ever. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/391 "2009-05-15T07:03:16Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I tell you what, thought experiment. What can hold a bigger gun, something that has to fly around or something stationary? For anyone with the technology to build a proper space-capable warship, whether it’s Warhammer 40,000, Star Wars or Star Trek, I think a dedicated kill-stuff warship could be pretty much as heavily armed as a dedicated kill-stuff space station. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/392 "2009-05-15T07:53:29Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > For anyone with the technology to build a proper space-capable warship, whether it’s Warhammer 40,000, Star Wars or Star Trek, I think a dedicated kill-stuff warship could be pretty much as heavily armed as a dedicated kill-stuff space station. That’s silly. You’re forgetting that the bigger the cannon the more energy will be required to move it. And that’s energy you’re not pouring out in the cannon blasts. Now TV and Movie physics is of course different, but for instance, DS9 could take any single ship it faced. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/393 "2009-05-15T07:57:52Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes, they did- in _a mining ship_. Why does even a Romulan mining ship have the firepower of a dozen battleships? Even a mining ship of today would be sunk by a fleet from Sir Francis Drake time, and the different wasn;t 400 years in tech. It was a mining ship that had modern torpedoes. Do you think that a mining ship from today that had modern cruise missiles could destroy Drake’s fleet? > [@](#): > > The film made no sense at all, over and over and over. It wasnt plot holes, the whole entire plot, beginning to end, was a giant black hole. It is not that it violated canon, it was that it was simply a bad film, enlivened by a few good performances\*, some nice action and a lot of throwaway in-jokes. It made plenty of sense. Perhaps like BE above you weren’t listening? > [@](#): > > - Except- Worst. Spock. Ever. Well, he definitely came in a strong second. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/394 "2009-05-15T08:19:40Z")
**Lobohan** , I’m honestly curious – why do you seem to so desperately need to explain away other people’s criticism? Does it cheapen your enjoyment of the movie if other people didn’t like it? You should be happy that you enjoyed it; that not all people like the same things is pretty much a given. For instance, Kirk’s insta-promotion apparently worked for you in a way that you could buy it in the context of the film; it didn’t work for me, and others, and thus took me out of the movie. You can’t change that by applying post hoc patches; I simply found it unbelievable, it didn’t work for me in the story, as there was no compelling reason for this to happen other than that he’s Kirk and needs to be captain. Same goes for other plot inconsistencies. It’s not that we’re determined not to like it, it’s that we _didn’t like it_, and can’t retroactively be made to like it. Frankly, this obsession with dispelling other’s criticism seems a bit bizarre to me. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/395 "2009-05-15T09:02:32Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > That’s silly. You’re forgetting that the bigger the cannon the more energy will be required to move it. So? We’re not talking about 1960’s technology, where you need a 30 : 1 mass : payload ratio just to get into orbit. If the Federation has managed to get this down to 1.2:1 or better, I’d say that’s close enough not to write off warships for the reduction in combat effectiveness from swapping 16% of your lasers for FTL and maneuvering capacity. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/396 "2009-05-15T11:03:43Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, if you don’t want sarcastic replies, don’t ask stupid questions. There are no stupid questions, only stupid people who get asked questions. ---
**Author:** ![Kal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Kal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kal)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/397 "2009-05-15T11:40:50Z")
This thread is brilliant if you imagine Sheldon Cooper’s voice while reading it. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/398 "2009-05-15T12:50:39Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > - Except- Worst. Spock. Ever. Huh. Even the movie’s worst critics have tended to single out Quinto’s performance as rising above the level of the rest of the work. Can you say something more specific about why you thought his was a particularly bad performance, or a particularly bad interpretation of Spock’s character? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/399 "2009-05-15T14:38:01Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > There are no stupid questions, only stupid people who get asked questions. Sure, that must be it. Sure. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/400 "2009-05-15T14:48:22Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > It was a mining ship that had modern torpedoes. Do you think that a mining ship from today that had modern cruise missiles could destroy Drake’s fleet? This argument undercuts the need for “access codes”, since “a mining ship from today with modern cruise missiles” would have no need to care about Francis Drake’s various flag signals and whatnot, would they? Certainly no need to torture Drake himself for passwords so they could sneak into London harbour and destroy it and then London itself. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640.md?page=21)