# Star Trek -- the "I saw it" thread \*\*SPOILERS\*\* **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 7, 2009, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640 "2009-05-07T08:13:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/501 "2009-05-15T22:22:44Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Since I obviously don’t want to go home.. > > Honestly, I don’t know why people are bothered by what one. Chekov’s a very junior officer when Khan is on board, and consequently is assigned to the GRAVEYARD SHIFT. He and the other noobs get sent to head-cleaning duty whenever the ship is about to do anything that matters, and he encountered Khan while they both were wandering around the ship one afternoon. I know I like that explanation myself. 😃 > [@](#): > > Planets with life are more common in the Trekverse than ours, and the Genesis team, wanting to avoid even the sniff of ethical impropriety, demanded one without so much as a microbe. I’m pretty sure that every moon in our system with the exception of perhaps Europa doesn’t have a microbe on it… but yeah, I like the idea of those tree-huggers making Star Fleet jump through hoops. > [@](#): > > I’ll give you those. > > I was going to argue those, but in the middle of the sentence my brain complained and I had to concede them. 🆒 This is no place for reasonableness. Pick a side and ride it! > [@](#): > > Nah. Just standard tech magic. > > What’s stupid is that it’s never followed up on. Because, even though it’s a failure as a terraforming device as the new planet is unstable, it’s a huge success as a weapon of mass destruction. But I’ll fanwank it as the Feds, Romulans, and Klingons banning the tech. Further: the bad press caused by the Federation seeming to have created such a horror is why they had to agree to the otherwise incomprehensive and categorically stupid treaty that prevented them from using cloaking tech when their enemies were allowed to keep it. Yeah, I was reaching there. I actually like the genesis device. I think it’s an excellent man taking on the role of god metaphor thingee. > [@](#): > > I always assumed that Khan intended to create a paradise for himself and his fellows. He just wanted Kirk dead first. Hmm… that sounds good. I can’t imagine that anyone would let him keep it. > [@](#): > > Kirk left him a computer with a full library bank to assist with staying alive. Whatever junior officer was assigned to prepariing it (probably Chekov–that’s when they met 😃 ) stripped out stuff like “how to make a shuttlecraft warp-capable enough to travel 5 light years” and “how to turn your communicator into a 2-shot phaser.” But he left in the cultural section because it was harmless, and Khan reads really fast. Now that is some epic fanwankery. > [@](#): > > They had loaders for the torpedoes because the ship was damaged and the automatic systems were offline; this is explicit in the narrative. As for the z-axis, it was more than Khan had never fought that way and overloked it. Experience IS better than genius some days. Oh I know, having toyed with both I have to agree. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/502 "2009-05-15T22:22:57Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Since I obviously don’t want to go home. In a few minutes, I have to go out for the weekend, but suffice it to say that whatever flaws are present in TWOK, it’s easy to ignore them in light of the compelling drama and twin themes of revenge and getting old. Trek 2009 has no such drama, hence the plot holes are impossible to ignore. As far as I can tell, the whole movie is nothing _but_ plot holes, broken up by a few cute moments here and there. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/503 "2009-05-15T22:25:05Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > In a few minutes, I have to go out for the weekend, but suffice it to say that whatever flaws are present in TWOK, it’s easy to ignore them in light of the compelling drama and twin themes of revenge and getting old. > > Trek 2009 has no such drama, hence the plot holes are impossible to ignore. As far as I can tell, the whole movie is nothing _but_ plot holes, broken up by a few cute moments here and there. Ah… I was gonna try again, instead I’ll say, have a good weekend. And go see the movie again. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/504 "2009-05-15T22:29:27Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Kirk, who must be no more than 24 years old, gets as his first assignment – without ever being even an ensign–command of a starship. He never has to do any scut work. He never has to deal with hierarchies, with being a junior officer. It’s utter wish-fulfillment. It’s like it was written by a 18-year-old kid whose never had a job and is utterly assured of his own genius. It was repellent. Ouch. I just saw the movie and liked it, but after reading that I have to agree totally. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/505 "2009-05-15T22:37:54Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Um…no she’s not. If she’s using the “Mrs.” honorific, then she’s surely taken his name, so she’s Mrs. Riker. And if she has kept her own name, she’s probably not using the honorific, so she’s Ms. Troi. Or possibly Commander or Counselor Troi. On Betazed the husband takes his wife’s name so he’d be Mister Troi. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/506 "2009-05-15T22:39:12Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I don’t know. I have to agree with **Skald** , there were just too many coincidences all happening in such short order, to bring everything to where it’s supposed to be, and solving everyone’s problems that it just seemed lazy. Everything just seemed like it was an excuse…an excuse to have a ninja sword, an excuse to bring in Leonard Nimoy, an excuse to make Kirk captain, an excuse to have a giant dinosaur chase, an excuse to have a Khan replacement out for personal vengeance, etc. It just seemed like a stream of unconnected scenes put together for no particular reason beyond that they seemed cool. And there was no obvious reason to do it that way. Why not have a plausible story about Kirk and Spock in Starfleet academy, or simply just make them already be in place on the Enterprise? A lot of those problems could have been easily dealt with. When Kirk tells Pike he’ll graduate in 3 years they could have flash fowarded to the future when Kirk is first taking command of the Enterprise. To keep the old canon somewhat straight, Spock could already be the ships executive office, but he and Kirk don’t see eye to eye at first. A few lines of dialogue could establish that Kirk and McCoy are “old friends” and that McCoy is the ship’s Medical Officer. Even if Kirk brought him aboard when he took command and McCoy was 2nd in command of the medical section, he could have been elecvated to CMO when the original is killed. Chekov didn’t bother me too much. Scotty’s gremlin buddy did a little. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/507 "2009-05-15T22:44:13Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > In a few minutes, I have to go out for the weekend, but suffice it to say that whatever flaws are present in TWOK, it’s easy to ignore them in light of the compelling drama and twin themes of revenge and getting old. > > Trek 2009 has no such drama, hence the plot holes are impossible to ignore. As far as I can tell, the whole movie is nothing _but_ plot holes, broken up by a few cute moments here and there. My first post in the thread was about hating the Trek 90210, you’ll recall. And I agree. It occurs to me that all movies have plot holes. When a movie succeeds is when it draws you into its world so compelling that you only notice later, or when you like the characters so much that you don’t care. This is why TWoK works. It’s not about the Genesis device, as it would have been if it had been a TNG episode; nor is it about revenge, as it would have been if it were a Voyager episode. It’s about Kirk realizing he’s on the downward slope of that long march toward the grave, and that he hates his life because he hates not being in the saddle. That’s why it works: because 60s!Kirk isn’t a starchild whose had everything handed to him by fate, and because we like him and want him to to succeed emotionally as he has professionally. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/508 "2009-05-15T23:39:05Z")
[quote=“Lobohan, post:497, topic:495640”] [li]Checkov knowing Khan. (Easily fanwankable however)[/li][/QUOTE] I think Walter Koenig himself had a bit of an actorwank about that about how Khan must have been kept waiting overly long to use the bathroom by Ensign Chekov during his visit to the Enterprise.😃 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/509 "2009-05-15T23:48:52Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > I assumed you were talking about the much more prominent Troi. Please do not discuss female anatomy in a thread that young people may read. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/510 "2009-05-16T00:02:01Z")
> [@Jolly\_Roger](#): > > Ouch. I just saw the movie and liked it, but after reading that I have to agree totally. It’s the only plot hole that detracts from the movie as far as I’m concerned. And even though the command structure is so odd, I still really enjoyed the feel of the cast being a part of something, rather than just having Starfleet and The Federation be The Man. I may pay for that. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/511 "2009-05-16T00:51:36Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Saavik has the conn out of spacedock (in the sense of directing the helm officer) because Spock is bored and feels like yanking Kirk’s chain. That isn’t at all how I saw the scene - not even close, in fact. Your opinions aren’t necessarily objective fact. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/512 "2009-05-16T00:59:55Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > That isn’t at all how I saw the scene - not even close, in fact. Your opinions aren’t necessarily objective fact. Dude, we’re in Cafe Society talking about Star Trek. Everything here that doesn’t have an IMDB reference is an opinion. 🆒 I was mostly kidding, but certainly Spock gives Saavik the conn as a joke on Kirk–though perhaps not out of boredom. Spock is, after all, a fairly subtle fellow; he may have had some other purpose. How do you see the scene? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/513 "2009-05-16T01:02:01Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > That isn’t at all how I saw the scene - not even close, in fact. Your opinions aren’t necessarily objective fact. I missed the observation to which you are replying and am glad you said this. All his opinions should be weighted accordingly. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/514 "2009-05-16T01:03:12Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Dude, we’re in Cafe Society talking about Star Trek. Everything here that doesn’t have an IMDB reference is an opinion. 🆒 > > I was mostly kidding, but certainly Spock gives Saavik the conn as a joke on Kirk–though perhaps not out of boredom. Spock is, after all, a fairly subtle fellow; he may have had some other purpose. How do you see the scene? You don’t get Spock. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/515 "2009-05-16T01:07:11Z")
I’m going to see it tomorrow for the second time, and I’m very much looking forward to it. I can’t remember the last time I’ve had so much fun at an action movie. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/516 "2009-05-16T03:26:06Z")
I did NOT wade through 11 pages–I might do so tomorrow if #2 son’s soccer is canceled due to rain. I just got back from the movie. Here are my thoughts: It’s mozzarella atop Roquefort below cheddar smothered in Velveeta with sprinkles of Parmesan, but I had fun. I think they added that bit about the dilithium crystals near the end just for the fans. I hated Kirk as a boy. Almost wet myself at the inane silliness of Mrs Kirk giving birth as their ship is destroyed and laughed throughout the movie at such things as a small ball of “red matter” is enough to destroy an entire planet, but the whole shebang is not enough to do in a Romulan warship. I loved seeing Nimoy again, although I had some trouble understanding him. I really liked the younger Spock, thought the young cadet Kirk was a real jerk, but he grew on me. Chekov’s curly hair was distracting (or maybe he just bugged me). Uhura and Spock were cool together. Scotty was good, but McCoy seemed to be a cross between the old Bones and Number 1. I’d rent it again, but I wouldn’t pay theater prices to see it again. ---
**Author:** ![lee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lee/32/7455_2.png) [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/517 "2009-05-16T06:09:36Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Did they really have to bring back the fucking miniskirts? :mad: Pure sexism. All the women (who are all young & pretty) get to show off their legs to the delight the male officers.\. I don’t think so. Looking around at some of the women who are managers, and even executives in my company, many of them choose to dress quite sexily at work. They don’t look like they are ready for a night club, but mini skirts are common enough as are other clothing that shows off their figures. This whole idea that being sexy somehow is incompatible with competency is an idea whose time has already passed. And I am sure it is not just male officers who enjoy the sight. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/518 "2009-05-16T07:02:17Z")
A new Snickers commercial ever just occurred to me! “Not going anywhere for a while (because you’re a grief-crazed Romulan who has to wait 25 years for the Vulcan to pop through the black hole with the red matter)? Snickers really satisfies.” Cut to Nero chewing in a very purposeful way. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/519 "2009-05-16T09:57:22Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > I’d rent it again, but I wouldn’t pay theater prices to see it again. I didn’t really want to wade through 11 pages either 🙂 I caught it last night and will likely catch it again when the cheap ticket day at the cinema next comes around. It was a laugh, Star Trek lite for those who may not even have been soured by Enterprise. I enjoyed it, plot holes and all. An enthusiastic cast and a speed that doesn’t let you stop to look too hard at those plot holes made it entirely enjoyable. Five minutes in I was hooked and I was surprised at that too. Nice to see the little references to Trek of old, Pike in a wheelchair, Kirk gnawing on an apple during the Kobayashi Maru and some I didn’t spot myself first time around. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/520 "2009-05-16T13:46:47Z")
> [@Pushkin](#): > > Star Trek lite I may live longer if I all it _Star Trek Lite_ rather than _Star Trek 90210._ Thanks! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640.md?page=27)