# Star Trek -- the "I saw it" thread \*\*SPOILERS\*\* **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 7, 2009, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640 "2009-05-07T08:13:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 32
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/621 "2009-05-18T19:10:59Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > I think that like you and me, a lot of people are going to be watching the old Star Trek movies and/or the series. Enjoy (and I’m jealous that you could buy them–there’s no money in the budget for that for me). 🙂 It’s called having left over gift cards from Christmas. Unfortunately, our favorite Trek Movie (Galaxy Quest) isn’t on Blu-ray. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/622 "2009-05-18T19:25:59Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I was just thinking, they might have a mandatory number of shuttles necessary to offload the whole crew. Maybe some of them are one time use escape shuttles or whatnot. > > Also, the reason for the huge crew could be that 35 years before TOS automation wasn’t up to the challenge. But only 21 years before the Enterprise is launched. That the Enterprise D is so much bigger shows they were moving in the other direction. **Aesiron** ’s links are good enough for me. The reboot means throwing out all technical consistency also. I didn’t count the shuttles, but there seemed to be a lot. None of the Prime Enterprise’s shuttles we saw could hold 100 people - the Galileo had 7, but I suspect a few more could crowd in if needed. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/623 "2009-05-18T19:32:08Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > The ships are bigger, but they number the same crew. There was a scene left on the cuttingroom floor explaining how this version of Kirk, etc. are 50 feet tall. The Kelvin was build before the timelines diverged. The Enterprise and her sister ships were always spoken of as the top of the line, odd if there was a ship twice as big. The Kelvin also only had one warp nacelle, which seems odd for such a big ship. Why do I have this image of Abrams laughing maniacally on the set “No body will notice!” ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/624 "2009-05-18T19:32:20Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > Kirk didn’t look fifty feet tall to me. That’s obviously either a plot hole, or you weren’t paying attention. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/625 "2009-05-18T19:39:00Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > Kirk didn’t look fifty feet tall to me. I think in the reboot, they must be drawing a distinction between the sizes of his ego and of his body: [http://kal3b.com/images/star-trek-captain-james-t-kirk-motivational-posters.jpg](http://kal3b.com/images/star-trek-captain-james-t-kirk-motivational-posters.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/626 "2009-05-18T19:40:38Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > Pretty much everything Spock does in this movie is an emotional reaction to something. And it works. My favourite is his caving and putting Uhura on the Enterprise. I can buy him challenging Kirk because of emotions, but not that his argument was so illogical. BTW, Spock’s emotionalism here ruins the dynamics that made TOS so good, and I hope they dump it in the sequel. Spock was reason, McCoy was emotion, and Kirk, the integration of the two, was superior to either. That this was intended from the beginning is shown by Kirk always beating Spock in chess. (It also shows Kirk as a master of tactics and strategy.) If both Kirk and Spock have both sides, they are just normal buddies. It would be good if the next movie showed Spock overcoming his emotional reaction, but I’m not holding my breath. I can buy his emotions being stirred by the death of Vulcan, but the hearing scene happened before that. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/627 "2009-05-18T19:41:55Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > Kirk didn’t look fifty feet tall to me. Maybe one part of him is, which is how he scores the Orion chick. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/628 "2009-05-18T19:46:06Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > The Kelvin was build before the timelines diverged. The Enterprise and her sister ships were always spoken of as the top of the line, odd if there was a ship twice as big. The Kelvin also only had one warp nacelle, which seems odd for such a big ship. > > Why do I have this image of Abrams laughing maniacally on the set “No body will notice!” The Kelvin actually looks like a variant of a [Franz Joseph ship](http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=franz%20joseph%20star%20trek&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi), Joseph being the person that wrote the Starfleet Technical Manual and drew up a half-dozen non-canon blueprints in the 70s. It’s not canon, but they’re riffing on designs with a well-established history with Trekkies. > [@Voyager](#): > > BTW, Spock’s emotionalism here ruins the dynamics that made TOS so good, and I hope they dump it in the sequel. Spock was reason, McCoy was emotion, and Kirk, the integration of the two, was superior to either. That this was intended from the beginning is shown by Kirk always beating Spock in chess. (It also shows Kirk as a master of tactics and strategy.) If both Kirk and Spock have both sides, they are just normal buddies. It would be good if the next movie showed Spock overcoming his emotional reaction, but I’m not holding my breath. I can buy his emotions being stirred by the death of Vulcan, but the hearing scene happened before that. I’ve always taken Vulcans to be a lot more emotional than pop-culture thinks they are. Spock is oftern smarmy and arrogant in the original series, and often enjoys poking at McCoy, all of which are emotional responses. Vulcans may claim they are masters of their emotions, but they’ve always struck me as cold more than emotionless. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/629 "2009-05-18T20:05:11Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > The Kelvin was build before the timelines diverged. The Enterprise and her sister ships were always spoken of as the top of the line, odd if there was a ship twice as big. The Kelvin also only had one warp nacelle, which seems odd for such a big ship. > > Why do I have this image of Abrams laughing maniacally on the set “No body will notice!” We don’t know that the Kelvin is twice as big, we know that she had twice the crew of TOS ship had some 35 years later. As I said, automation could be why that is. Second, even if it were bigger, bigger doesn’t mean more powerful. An oil tanker is bigger than a destroyer. Third, other ships have had one nacelle. I think they eventually decided that 2 was the most efficient. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/630 "2009-05-18T20:13:17Z")
No other ship that I can think of has one nacelle, and I can only think of one (the Galaxy refit in _All Good Things…_) that had three instead of an even two or four. I am fairly certain the Kelvin is the first canon appearance of a one nacelled ship. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/631 "2009-05-18T20:18:19Z")
[USS _Firebrand_](http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/USS_Firebrand) NCC-68723 shown in “The Best of Both Worlds, Part II” had one warp nacelle. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/632 "2009-05-18T20:20:13Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > No other ship that I can think of has one nacelle, and I can only think of one (the Galaxy refit in _All Good Things…_) that had three instead of an even two or four. > > I am fairly certain the Kelvin is the first canon appearance of a one nacelled ship. [Boom goes the dynamite!](http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Freedom_class) Actually I had to look that up. I think I was basing that on the Star Fleet Battles table top game. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/633 "2009-05-18T20:21:14Z")
> [@Terminus\_Est](#): > > [USS _Firebrand_](http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/USS_Firebrand) NCC-68723 shown in “The Best of Both Worlds, Part II” had one warp nacelle. Admit it, you used a wormhole to post that faster than me, right? ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/634 "2009-05-18T20:21:40Z")
Ah. The ass-ugly kitbashes from TNG and DS9. I try to forget about most of those, though I do quite like the Centaur class. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/635 "2009-05-18T20:23:45Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Admit it, you used a wormhole to post that faster than me, right? 😃 You haven’t seen Ambassador Spock around, have you? ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/636 "2009-05-18T20:31:52Z")
For what it is worth, [here](http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2009/05/enterprise-vs-bsg3.jpg) is a scaled comparison of the Enterprises, as well as Battlestar Galactica and the ISS. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/637 "2009-05-18T20:53:53Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > The Kelvin was build before the timelines diverged. The Enterprise and her sister ships were always spoken of as the top of the line, odd if there was a ship twice as big. The Kelvin also only had one warp nacelle, which seems odd for such a big ship. You have no sense of humour. As for the character dynamic, it isn’t ruined. TOS still exists. I’m fine that this has more to it than new people playing old characters. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/638 "2009-05-18T21:40:04Z")
> [@Terminus\_Est](#): > > 😃 You haven’t seen Ambassador Spock around, have you? Uh, yeah. I know him. Let me take you to him. I’ll just be heading back to my ship now. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/639 "2009-05-18T21:48:56Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > The Kelvin actually looks like a variant of a [Franz Joseph ship](http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=franz%20joseph%20star%20trek&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi), Joseph being the person that wrote the Starfleet Technical Manual and drew up a half-dozen non-canon blueprints in the 70s. > > It’s not canon, but they’re riffing on designs with a well-established history with Trekkies. You mean the bathroom is not behind the viewscreen? 🙂 I have the blueprints, and the first concordance and technical manual, and recognized the ship. I’ll have to look it up, but I think the capacity was smaller than the Enterprise. They actually did a nice job on the ships. > [@](#): > > I’ve always taken Vulcans to be a lot more emotional than pop-culture thinks they are. Spock is oftern smarmy and arrogant in the original series, and often enjoys poking at McCoy, all of which are emotional responses. Vulcans may claim they are masters of their emotions, but they’ve always struck me as cold more than emotionless. You have a broad view of emotions. I’ve been in plenty of non-emotional technical discussions where there was that kind of picking at opposite positions. Perhaps Spock learned that this kind of response was necessary to live in human society. It also could represent the conflict between reason and emotion. Spock wad definitely sarcastic - “thank you Captain McCoy.” (The Immunity Syndrome.) But I have a hard time seeing how Spock-B is going to be touting the virtues of logic while snogging Uhura. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/640 "2009-05-18T21:56:58Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > But I have a hard time seeing how Spock-B is going to be touting the virtues of logic while snogging Uhura. It would be illogical not to! Vulcans can have casual sex. At least that’s suggested by Sarek taking two human wives. Pon Farr is forced sex, I don’t think it has been suggested that they can’t have sex at other times. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640.md?page=31) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640.md?page=33)