# Star Trek -- the "I saw it" thread \*\*SPOILERS\*\* **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 7, 2009, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640 "2009-05-07T08:13:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/681 "2009-05-19T17:24:50Z")
In the scene where the two Spock’s finally meet each other, I believe that was filmed in the old blimp hangars on (formerly) MCAS Tustin. I’ve been in those things. Huge. Impressive, for being made out of wood. > **[Marine Corps Air Station Tustin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Corps_Air_Station_Tustin)** > > Marine Corps Air Station Tustin (IATA: NTK, ICAO: KNTK, FAA LID: NTK) is a former United States Navy and United States Marine Corps air station, located in Tustin, California. > The Air Station was established in 1942 by the United States Navy as a lighter-than-air base, officially known as Naval Air Station Santa Ana. The base was designed for blimp operations in support of the Navy's coastal patrol efforts during World War II. It was commissioned on 1 October 1942 by its commandant, Capt. Howa... ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/682 "2009-05-19T18:29:52Z")
I thought it was OK. Just OK. My main heart ache (I’m a Naval Officer) is the whole issue with a bunch of Academy guys running around in command of the Flagship of Star Fleet. I’m trying to picture how a bunch of college at the end of their Senior year in college would do if you put them in charge of the USS Nimitz. And in about 2-3 days, have one of those guys, who’s not even an Ensign yet, become the Commanding Officer of that Flag ship! Not to mention that the entire bridge crew is also made up of 21 year olds! Why not just have them in charge of some non-descript smaller ship, like the ohhh Farragut, that might actually be commanded by a Lieutenant? ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/683 "2009-05-19T18:38:42Z")
Though not canon, Farragut is generally considered to be one of Enterprise’s sister ships. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/684 "2009-05-19T19:34:35Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > I thought it was OK. Just OK. My main heart ache (I’m a Naval Officer) is the whole issue with a bunch of Academy guys running around in command of the Flagship of Star Fleet. They seem to be misusing the term “flagship”. [Farragut](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Farragut_(DDG-99)) That’s Admiral Farragut? I thought US Destroyers were named after enlisted men who lost their lives. Maybe that was in WWII when there were more possible names. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/685 "2009-05-19T19:44:20Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > They seem to be misusing the term “flagship”. > [Farragut](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Farragut_(DDG-99)) That’s Admiral Farragut? I thought US Destroyers were named after enlisted men who lost their lives. Maybe that was in WWII when there were more possible names. Arleigh Burke, the lead ship of the class of destroyer you linked above, is also an admiral. The earlier Fletcher class detroyers (that saw service in WW2) were also named after various USN officer’s, as well. [Farragut-class destroyer (1934) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farragut_class_destroyer_(1934)) > **[List of destroyer classes of the United States Navy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_destroyer_classes_of_the_United_States_Navy)** > > The first automotive torpedo was developed in 1866, and the torpedo boat was developed soon after. In 1898, while the Spanish–American War was being fought in the Caribbean and the Pacific, Assistant Secretary of the Navy Theodore Roosevelt wrote that the Spanish torpedo boat destroyers were the only threat to the American Navy, and pushed for the acquisition of similar vessels. On 4 May 1898, the US Congress authorized the first sixteen torpedo boat destroyers and twelve seagoing torpedo boat... It doesn’t appear that rank (of the person to be honored) was the deciding issue. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/686 "2009-05-19T19:52:02Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > They seem to be misusing the term “flagship”. Not really. Originally, it just meant the ship carrying the flag officer or commander of a fleet, but it’s also meant the best, largest, or most important product or vehicle for a while now. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/687 "2009-05-19T20:25:21Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > …That’s Admiral Farragut? I thought US Destroyers were named after enlisted men who lost their lives. Maybe that was in WWII when there were more possible names. This is the USS _Farragut_ referred to: [http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/USS\_Farragut\_(23rd\_century)](http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/USS_Farragut_(23rd_century)). The consensus has long been (up to this movie, at least) that she was a _Constitution_-class starship, like the _Enterprise_. In case you hadn’t already seen this, J.J. Abrams answers ten questions on the movie: [http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Memory\_Alpha:Ask\_J.J.\_Abrams/Answers](http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Memory_Alpha:Ask_J.J._Abrams/Answers) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/688 "2009-05-19T20:31:05Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > It doesn’t appear that rank (of the person to be honored) was the deciding issue. I was thinking of [The Sullivans.](http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq72-6.htm) I certainly like the phrase, “Destroyers are named for naval heroes and leaders.” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/689 "2009-05-19T20:31:17Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > Doesn’t feel right? I’m going to guess you haven’t been in an actual power plant, then. The layout and tubes running every which way felt _exactly_ right for a plant environment. (naturally, since it was.) It was easy enough for me to recognize while watching the film which parts were filmed on location (generally, as Kirk and/or Scotty are dashing about), and which on a soundstage (closeups, mostly. and the Augustus Gloop tubes.) > > What didn’t feel right was (1) it was so damn _clean_ that it looked like a food grade facility, and (2) there was no one around. Yeah, but real power plants don’t get assembled in space and accelerated to near light speeds. The early power plant scenes, while showing a much bigger space than we are used to, at least looked like every inch was being used. The Gloop scene had tubes running about when there were no obstructions for them to avoid. Buffering could have been done in the tank better. I can’t see why the pipes wouldn’t be direct. As for cleanliness, if this were a water purification facility, I can see it. Maybe no one was around since this was a nonessential location, and everyone was busy elsewhere thanks the the number of casualties they took earlier. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/690 "2009-05-19T20:38:30Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > This is the USS _Farragut_ referred to: [http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/USS\_Farragut\_(23rd\_century)](http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/USS_Farragut_(23rd_century)). The consensus has long been (up to this movie, at least) that she was a _Constitution_-class starship, like the _Enterprise_. I was referring to rea…, er, 20th century wessels. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/691 "2009-05-19T20:46:04Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I was thinking of [The Sullivans.](http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq72-6.htm) > > I certainly like the phrase, “Destroyers are named for naval heroes and leaders.” > > 🙂 Heh. Now, with this film’s release, we may see a _U.S.S. Olson_. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/692 "2009-05-19T20:50:15Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Yeah, but real power plants don’t get assembled in space and accelerated to near light speeds. The early power plant scenes, while showing a much bigger space than we are used to, at least looked like every inch was being used. The Gloop scene had tubes running about when there were no obstructions for them to avoid. Buffering could have been done in the tank better. I can’t see why the pipes wouldn’t be direct… Well, we don’t really know how Star Trek FTL works; it there’s not a hug cost to schlepping around all that extra space, it’s sure easier to get to things if you have to fix things in a hurry. Say, while under phaser fire. And the TOS engine room was… a big empty room with some consoles in it. Not exactly the cramped space I’d expect in a nautical ship, say. Actually, the Gloop tubes running this way and that with no obstructions to avoid made them look _more_ realistic. I’m constantly scratching my head at work wondering why someone routed a pipe zig-zag fifteen feet hither and yon, with nothing in the way and nothing having been demo’d away. The headscratcher with the Gloop tubes for me was: why are they _transparent_? They were filled with a clear fluid without turbulent flow – you couldn’t look inside to see how the flow was going; all you’d see is whether there was anything in there, or not. So why bother making it see-through? Stick in a flowmeter and monitor from the control room. Making pipes transparent for asthetics is something an interior decorator would do, not an engineer. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/693 "2009-05-19T20:59:10Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > Well, we don’t really know how Star Trek FTL works; it there’s not a hug cost to schlepping around all that extra space, it’s sure easier to get to things if you have to fix things in a hurry. Say, while under phaser fire. > > And the TOS engine room was… a big empty room with some consoles in it. Not exactly the cramped space I’d expect in a nautical ship, say. > > Actually, the Gloop tubes running this way and that with no obstructions to avoid made them look _more_ realistic. I’m constantly scratching my head at work wondering why someone routed a pipe zig-zag fifteen feet hither and yon, with nothing in the way and nothing having been demo’d away. The headscratcher with the Gloop tubes for me was: why are they _transparent_? They were filled with a clear fluid without turbulent flow – you couldn’t look inside to see how the flow was going; all you’d see is whether there was anything in there, or not. So why bother making it see-through? Stick in a flowmeter and monitor from the control room. Making pipes transparent for asthetics is something an interior decorator would do, not an engineer. I thought that whole slapstick gag was one of the weakest parts of the movie. Romulan staying angry for 25 years? Doesn’t make sense, but it’s important to the story. The gag with Scotty being pumped through the pipes served no purpose whatsoever. Why not just have him bump his head? (Oh. Wait. _Kirk_ already did that one.) And his little gremlin buddy… wtf? Did they learn nuthin from Jar Jar? ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/694 "2009-05-19T21:02:17Z")
I saw it yesterday and enjoyed it. It moved fast enough for me that the errors did not undermine the story. I didn’t like the time travel part, but I considered that necessary to break from canon. I also didn’t care for the “going through a black hole” thing to emerge on the other side. I didn’t connect well with this cast and I think it’s because their ‘bravado’ too often crossed the line to being a prick. Hopefully, they will correct this next time and nurture the friendship angle. Dump Scotty’s tag along friend. I didn’t like the water tubes carrying Scotty away. Comic relief without the comic. The ultra fast ascension from cadet to Captain, etc., stinks, but nobody wants to see ensign Kirk. I suppose they could just skip forward (e.g., “Three years later…”). I didn’t even think of the HUGE COINCIDENCE behind the Kirk and Spock meeting in the ice cave at the time I watched it. I wonder what old Spock plans on doing in his new timeline. In all, pretty good action packed fun and a much needed departure from the slow plodding TNG movies. I look forward to the next one. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/695 "2009-05-19T21:06:59Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > I’m trying to picture how a bunch of college at the end of their Senior year in college would do if you put them in charge of the USS Nimitz. And in about 2-3 days, have one of those guys, who’s not even an Ensign yet, become the Commanding Officer of that Flag ship! What gets me, incidentally, is that DS9 did just that once–a group of ace cadets, while on a training mission, is forced to take command of a battleship. They eventully get killed due to their own arrogance. While I’d be okay with 90210!Kirk, Zoe S. is too pretty to die. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/696 "2009-05-19T21:12:43Z")
> [@Bearflag70](#): > > The ultra fast ascension from cadet to Captain, etc., stinks, but nobody wants to see ensign Kirk. Sure I do. I enjoyed _Midshipman Hornblower, Lieutenant Hornblower, Ensign Flandry_ and the other Flandry stuff before he is a Captain. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/697 "2009-05-19T21:16:58Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > And his little gremlin buddy… wtf? Did they learn nuthin from Jar Jar? Well, one thing they learned was to keep his screen time, participation and importance all small enough to not bug me. He can stay as long as he wants as long as there are no zany antics. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/698 "2009-05-19T21:17:28Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > What gets me, incidentally, is that DS9 did just that once–a group of ace cadets, while on a training mission, is forced to take command of a battleship. They eventully get killed due to their own arrogance. > > While I’d be okay with 90210!Kirk, Zoe S. is too pretty to die. That was my point, they are no where near ready for the biggest or best ship in the fleet (regardless of it’s name or nomenclature). So just give the equivalent of a frigate or small destroyer. It might make it a bit easier to swallow. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/699 "2009-05-19T21:17:38Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > What gets me, incidentally, is that DS9 did just that once I don’t remember that episode. Please elaborate. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/700 "2009-05-19T21:35:17Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I don’t remember that episode. Please elaborate. From memory, since I can’t get Wikipedia to come up.. It was during the Dominion War arc. Jake and Nog were on a runabout headed to Ferenginar so that Nog (a cadet by age, but who had been given a battlefield commission to ensign after being forced to clock in what must have been hundreds of hours of combat service and dozens of battles) could try to persuade his people to throw their lot in with the Federation; Jake was along as a journalist. Their ship is attacked by the Dominion and gets rescued by a Defiant-class ship named, I think the Valiant, which had been on a training mission with maybe 3 officers and 45 cadets when it was attacked months earlier. The Valiant’s captain and the other officers were all killed, and the captain, before dying, told the senior cadet to take command and get the ship home. Instead, because he and his fellows were all members of an officially-sanctioned fraternity called Red Squad–supposedly the best the Academy had to offer–the cadet commander proceeds to spend two months playing hit and run with the Dominion. He brevets Nog to Commander and puts him in charge of Engineering, and Nog, happy to be appreciated, totally buys into his bullshit. Jake does not, perhaps because the cadet captain, who must be at most a year older than he is, refers to him as “Ben Sisko’s boy” and basically acts as if there’s a 20-year-age difference between them. The cadets come up with a plan to destroy a Dominion prototype vessel. Jake calls bullshit on it, saying that his father would never try such a thing with just one ship and asking the cadets why they think that, without even graduating the Academy, they can out-think Starfleet officers with decades of experience. For his trouble he gets thrown into the brig. The cadets try their plan against the Dominion dreadnought, and it doesn’t work, causing them, naturally, to wet themselves in panic, and the dreadnought proceeds to obliterate them. Nog & Jake manage to escape in an escape pod, as does one cadet, who says that the play-acting cadet is a great captain based on all her months of experience. The last line of the episode is Jake’s who says that, “He may have been a great captain, but he was a bad man.” He is, of course, being nice, as he has to be thinking, “Actually, he was a monumental fuckup of a captain, a pissant of a man, and by far the worst human being I’ve ever been forced to be around.” I’ve always thought of this as the anti-Wesley episode. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640.md?page=34) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640.md?page=36)