# Star Trek -- the "I saw it" thread \*\*SPOILERS\*\* **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 7, 2009, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640 "2009-05-07T08:13:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 51
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2009, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/1001 "2009-06-07T19:56:51Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > I’ve always wondered if the name “Sulu” was just completely made up by Roddenberry. I’ve been into Japanese pop culture for several years and have _never_ seen that name outside of Star Trek. It doesn’t even _sound_ Japanese. Where is it ever stated that Sulu is of Japanese descent? He certainly isn’t native to the Land of the Rising Sun; it’s canon (from Trek IV) that he ws born in San Francisico. Nor does he ever evince any particular affinity for Japanese culture. His English is flawless and native–unlike Uhura, who is fluent but clearly speaks it s a second language, or Chekov, whose accent is…odd. And for what it’s worth, I’m sure the Great Bird took the name from the Sulu archipelago in the Phillippines. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2009, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/1002 "2009-06-07T20:39:55Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Kirk lost his shirt a lot, but I never saw him skipping down the corridor with an epee’. :rolleyes: So you agree that Kirk’s not as awesome as Sulu then? 😃 And yes, “FLY HER APART THEN!” is one of the best lines in ST6, the closest that Captain Sulu would ever come to saying “Why the hell are you wasting my time with such irrelevant bullshit?!” as if the risk of losing of his own ship was any concern compared to helping his comrades. I don’t recall the rest of the line, but that might be from an extended version of the movie. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2009, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/1003 "2009-06-07T20:41:26Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Where is it ever stated that Sulu is of Japanese descent? He certainly isn’t native to the Land of the Rising Sun; it’s canon (from Trek IV) that he ws born in San Francisico. Nor does he ever evince any particular affinity for Japanese culture. His English is flawless and native–unlike Uhura, who is fluent but clearly speaks it s a second language, or Chekov, whose accent is…odd. > > And for what it’s worth, I’m sure the Great Bird took the name from the Sulu archipelago in the Phillippines. Sulu’s first name is Hikaru, which is Japanese, although I wasn’t revealed in TOS as I recall. That suggests some Japanese heritage. Although his mom could have just been a fan of Anime. 😃 Sulu certainly isn’t a Japanese name, I suspect it was a Japanese-ish name that Roddenberry couldn’t be bothered to check. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2009, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/1004 "2009-06-07T20:54:35Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > So you agree that Kirk’s not as awesome as Sulu then? Not even though Takei unwillingly lived in Arkansas for a bit. Nothing is as awesome as “Here it comes.” from WOK. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2009, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/1005 "2009-06-07T20:57:22Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > Absolutely not. The first season of ST, (now watching as an adult heterosexual female), Kirk is hot, hot, hot. There are no man boobs–those come later, in the films, IMS. Sulu was never hot, but he was good with a sword. Speaking as an adult bisexual male, Sulu’s both awesomer and hotter. He also stays hotter longer. The jewfro Kirk grew as he got older was not attractive. > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > And for what it’s worth, I’m sure the Great Bird took the name from the Sulu archipelago in the Phillippines. That sounds familiar. > [@Lobohan](#): > > Sulu’s first name is Hikaru, which is Japanese, although I wasn’t revealed in TOS as I recall. That suggests some Japanese heritage. Although his mom could have just been a fan of Anime. 😃 Hikaru, like Nyota, was a fanon name. It was only canonized in ST6. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2009, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/1006 "2009-06-07T21:01:14Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Sulu’s first name is Hikaru, which is Japanese, although I wasn’t revealed in TOS as I recall. That suggests some Japanese heritage. Although his mom could have just been a fan of Anime. 😃 > > Sulu certainly isn’t a Japanese name, I suspect it was a Japanese-ish name that Roddenberry couldn’t be bothered to check. My given first name is Welsh. My middle name is English. My surname is Scottish. My online nom de plume is Norse. And here I am, apparently descended from Africans. 🙂 According to Wikipedia, Roddenberr was a WWII vet who served in the Pacific theater. He could easily have heard of the Sulu archipelego during the war & simply liked the name. And, again, there’s no reason to assume that the character was meant to come from Japan, any more than Kirk came from Scotland. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2009, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/1007 "2009-06-07T21:28:57Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > Speaking as an adult bisexual male, Sulu’s both awesomer and hotter. He also stays hotter longer. The jewfro Kirk grew as he got older was not attractive. Jewfro? :dubious: But I agree it wasn’t his best haircut. Then again, as an older man, his looks have gone to hell–and I’m being nice. But the only crew member hotter than Kirk in that first season was Spock. Uhura was a close third. Scotty has never been hot, nor has Chekov OR Sulu. I have spoken. Stop contradicting me! Oddly enough, I cannot stand Shatner as TJ Hooker; in fact, I find him repellant in the role. Guess I’ve got it bad for James Tiberius. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2009, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/1008 "2009-06-07T21:48:24Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > My given first name is Welsh. My middle name is English. My surname is Scottish. My online nom de plume is Norse. And here I am, apparently descended from Africans. 🙂 > > According to Wikipedia, Roddenberr was a WWII vet who served in the Pacific theater. He could easily have heard of the Sulu archipelego during the war & simply liked the name. And, again, there’s no reason to assume that the character was meant to come from Japan, any more than Kirk came from Scotland. Since _truth is stranger_ than fiction your mish-mash monikers only prove that Sulu must be Japanese. As I recall there was a scene in the script for ST IV where Sulu meets an ancestor who mistakes him for Uncle Akira or something. That at least lends some credence to the idea that Roddenberry felt he was Japanese. Nothing definitive of course, just another weight on the scale. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2009, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/1009 "2009-06-07T21:57:46Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Since _truth is stranger_ than fiction your mish-mash monikers only prove that Sulu must be Japanese. There is a certain logic to that… Eleanorigby, Scotty wasn’t hot, not that I’m a judge from this angle. Scotty is the guy you want in the bar with you if things get ugly, the guy you want with you in the Apollo capsule if your oxygen tank blows up. Remember _Friday’s Child,_ Scotty in command standing next to the chair, facing off the Klingon. “Let’s see if he has the belly for it.” ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2009, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/1010 "2009-06-07T22:13:04Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > Jewfro? :dubious: But I agree it wasn’t his best haircut. Then again, as an older man, his looks have gone to hell–and I’m being nice. But the only crew member hotter than Kirk in that first season was Spock. Uhura was a close third. Scotty has never been hot, nor has Chekov OR Sulu. I have spoken. Stop contradicting me! I’m more of a Bashir and Sisko kind of guy, anyway. Kira, and both Daxes for that matter, too. DS9: the prettiest Trek. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2009, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/1011 "2009-06-07T22:32:40Z")
If it’s indicative, Sulu’s random thoughts in the “Shore Leave” episode summoned a samurai. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2009, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/1012 "2009-06-07T22:38:35Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > If it’s indicative, Sulu’s random thoughts in the “Shore Leave” episode summoned a samurai. I award two points to Mr. Eker’s team. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2009, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/1013 "2009-06-07T22:55:34Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > According to Wikipedia, Roddenberr was a WWII vet who served in the Pacific theater. He could easily have heard of the Sulu archipelego during the war & simply liked the name According to “Inside Star Trek The Real Story”, it was a pun on the name of the VP of Desilu Studios, Herbert Solow. > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Scotty is the guy you want in the bar with you if things get ugly, the guy you want with you in the Apollo capsule if your oxygen tank blows up. Remember _Friday’s Child,_ Scotty in command standing next to the chair, facing off the Klingon. “Let’s see if he has the belly for it.” Heck, all I can think of him when it comes to bar fights is stabbing a hooker. McCoy’s your man, he’d show you how to slip out the back and find somewhere more peaceful to have a mint julep. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2009, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/1014 "2009-06-07T22:56:01Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > It’s tagalog. > > [Sulu Sea](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulu_Sea) That’s weird. So was Mr. Sulu supposed to have been ethnically Japanese but raised in the Philippines in a family that had been there for many generations and at some point had dropped their Japanese family name in favor of a Tagalog reference? Or perhaps his mother was Japanese but his father was Filipino? > [@eleanorigby](#): > > Like Cho Chang for Rowling–it’s not Chinese (the Cho part). Was Sulu supposed to be Japanese? I never really thought about it… When I first saw ST as a kid (in the '70s) I assumed he was Chinese, but then just about every kid I knew back then assumed any Asian was Chinese (nowadays I can _generally_ differentiate between Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans by sight, and Mr. Takei does look Japanese to me). I never heard him called anything but “Sulu”, and I don’t think I ever knew his given name until I read it on the Internet. But yes, “Hikaru” is a distinctly Japanese name. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2009, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/1015 "2009-06-07T23:04:28Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Where is it ever stated that Sulu is of Japanese descent? He certainly isn’t native to the Land of the Rising Sun; it’s canon (from Trek IV) that he ws born in San Francisico. > [@Aesiron](#): > > Hikaru, like Nyota, was a fanon name. It was only canonized in ST6. Okay, I didn’t see these two posts before I wrote my previous post. Does the canon say anything about his parents? Because he could still have a Japanese mother and Filipino father. Re: Nyota - I could swear that Spock called her “Nira” or something that sounded like that in the movie. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2009, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/1016 "2009-06-07T23:07:14Z")
Argh. Double post. Kill this one before it turns evil. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2009, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/1017 "2009-06-07T23:10:56Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > That’s weird. So was Mr. Sulu supposed to have been ethnically Japanese but raised in the Philippines in a family that had been there for many generations and at some point had dropped their Japanese family name in favor of a Tagalog reference? Or perhaps his mother was Japanese but his father was Filipino? Honestly, I don’t think much thought was given to him, Uhura, or Chekov. The first two were just token minorities, and the latter was supposed to appeal to the Monkee demographic, though there’s the story about Pravda getting pissed that there was no Russian on the ship when they were the first ones in space. I \*think \*Sulu was supposed to be Pan-Asiatic (fanon has it that Uhura’s from “the United States of Africa”) and that his surname was probably just something that sounded Asian to Roddenberry. I honestly don’t believe anymore thought was given to it than that, though, and as stated above, Hikaru was a name that was used in fanon for decades before it was given the official nod in ST6. The same for Nyota in this Trek, though she had a competing name – Penda. > [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > Okay, I didn’t see these two posts before I wrote my previous post. Does the canon say anything about his parents? Because he could still have a Japanese mother and Filipino father. > > Re: Nyota - I could swear that Spock called her “Nira” or something that sounded like that in the movie. We don’t know anything about his parents, and I doubt it’s anything like that. The Sulu Sea thing has always seemed like after the fact rationalization to me. It’d be like someone being named Puget being from Vancouver. And it was definitely Nyota. It has as long a history as Hikaru. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2009, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/1018 "2009-06-07T23:27:36Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > Okay, I didn’t see these two posts before I wrote my previous post. Does the canon say anything about his parents? Because he could still have a Japanese mother and Filipino father. He might have a Filipino great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandfather who served in the Eugenics wars that died when Khan ignited nukes to cover the escape of the Botany Bay. The Japanese mother then moved back in with her parents in San Francisco and as it happens he’s had mostly Japanese heritage since then. There is no reason that the Filipino guy had to be any time in recent history. For that matter, his father may have died young and his mother re-married a man with a Filipino last name who adopted young Hikaru. It could be anything really. What was this thread about again? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2009, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/1019 "2009-06-08T00:58:39Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > The Sulu Sea thing has always seemed like after the fact rationalization to me. It’d be like someone being named Puget being from Vancouver. Completely off-topic, but now that you mention it, Mr. Puget _was_ a lieutenant on Mr. Vancouver’s ship … > [@Wikipedia](#): > > In 1792 George Vancouver gave the name “Puget’s Sound” to the waters south of the Tacoma Narrows, in honor of Peter Puget, then a lieutenant accompanying him on the Vancouver Expedition. 😃 (sorry, I had to - that’s my neck of the woods) ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2009, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/1020 "2009-06-08T01:07:39Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > He certainly isn’t native to the Land of the Rising Sun; it’s canon (from Trek IV) that he was born in San Francisico. And the (ostensibly noncanonical but authorized) print-novel version of ST-IV _ **does** _ state he has Filipino-American descent. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640.md?page=50) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640.md?page=52)