# Star Trek -- the "I saw it" thread \*\*SPOILERS\*\* **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 7, 2009, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640 "2009-05-07T08:13:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 57
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/1121 "2009-06-18T10:05:00Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > I just looked both those up, and I’ve not read either, but neither of those make up for _Spock, Messiah!_ Why the hate for SM? I read it so long ago I can barely remember the plot, but what was it that raised it above (or lowered it below) all the rest of the Trek novels? ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/1122 "2009-06-18T11:55:35Z")
It’s been just as long for me, but I just remember really hating it. It’s not as bad as The Pandora Principle, which was a Pocket Book novel, though. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/1123 "2009-06-18T13:34:58Z")
My faves: several of the stories in the _Star Trek: New Voyages_ collection, including “The Face on the Barroom Floor” (Kirk gets in trouble while trying to remain anonymous on shore leave), “Mindsifter” (Kirk is kidnapped and tortured by Kor) and “The Enchanted Pool” (Spock is intrigued by an ethereal woman while trying to find a lost Starfleet superweapon), which are very different stories but each satisfying and a lot of fun in their own way; Diane Duane’s _Dark Mirror_ (a great Mirror Universe tale set in the ST:TNG era, later contradicted by DS9, but what the hell, you can always say it’s yet another alternate universe), and Peter David’s _Imzadi_ (a great Troi/Riker love story and time-travel puzzle), _Q-in-Law_ (romantic comedy with Q and Lwaxana Troi) and _Q-Squared_ (Q, Trelane and an alt-univ Picard cross paths). ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/1124 "2009-06-18T18:50:30Z")
I think I remember _Star Trek: New Voyages_, I picked it up at a book club in school. The Spock story had him chasing a fairy for a kiss IIRC 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/1125 "2009-06-18T19:56:02Z")
> [@Pushkin](#): > > I think I remember _Star Trek: New Voyages_, I picked it up at a book club in school. The Spock story had him chasing a fairy for a kiss IIRC 😉 Well, she was chasing him, but it actually all made sense in context (with a nice juxtaposition of his logic and her illogic). A nice, lighthearted romp. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/1126 "2009-06-18T19:56:52Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Judging from some of the toys I’ve seen at school, I believe they are living in sin. > > Skald: “What does it mean, ‘Ooky’?” _Ooky_ means “disturbing in a sexual fashion.” I don’t think there’s any way to read the two Phoenix novels other than Omne wanting Jim Kirk to be his bitch in the crassest sense: he wants Kirk to be his sex slave. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/1127 "2009-06-18T20:57:40Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > _Ooky_ means “disturbing in a sexual fashion.” You’re saying [these folks](http://www.geocities.com/~cousin_itt/theme.htm) are perverted or something? ---
**Author:** ![Anduinel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/848f3c/32.png) [@Anduinel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anduinel)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/1128 "2009-06-18T22:23:45Z")
I just finished the novelization of the movie and there was an explanation for the Kirk joyride that I wish had made it into the film. Apparently the restored car actually belonged to Jim and George Kirk’s dead father. Their stepdad (nice enough when mom was around, but an ass as soon as she takes off for space again) ordered the kids to get it washed up so that he could sell it. George had enough and decided to run away from home. Jim decided to do the same, but used the car instead. Driving it off the cliff read like it was half spur-of-the-moment rebellion, half having only a vague idea of where the brakes were. I like this a bit better…keeps Jim Kirk as a troubled kid feeling the loss of his dad, but less of a jerkass. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/1129 "2009-06-18T22:33:30Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > You’re saying [these folks](http://www.geocities.com/~cousin_itt/theme.htm) are perverted or something? “When I use a word, it means what I want it to mean. No more and no less.” ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/1130 "2009-06-18T22:34:39Z")
> [@Anduinel](#): > > I just finished the novelization of the movie and there was an explanation for the Kirk joyride that I wish had made it into the film. Apparently the restored car actually belonged to Jim and George Kirk’s dead father. Their stepdad (nice enough when mom was around, but an ass as soon as she takes off for space again) ordered the kids to get it washed up so that he could sell it. George had enough and decided to run away from home. Jim decided to do the same, but used the car instead. Driving it off the cliff read like it was half spur-of-the-moment rebellion, half having only a vague idea of where the brakes were. I like this a bit better…keeps Jim Kirk as a troubled kid feeling the loss of his dad, but less of a jerkass. You know…I’m gonna have to be one of those people who says that only things on screen count. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/1131 "2009-06-18T23:20:15Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > “When I use a word, it means what I want it to mean. No more and no less.” That’s altogether ooky. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/1132 "2009-06-18T23:21:49Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > That’s altogether ooky. No, it’s in just a little bit carrolly. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/1133 "2009-06-18T23:34:16Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > No, it’s in just a little bit carrolly. Perhaps so. But [this](http://www.geocities.com/~cousin_itt/lurch.htm#cassidy) is altogether ooky. > [@](#): > > His live-in girlfriend had his remains cremated, then buried in the backyard of their Woodlawn hills home. She did not have the remains moved when she relocated. Somewhere in Woodlawn, an unknowing house-buyer has a celebrity in their backyard! ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/1134 "2009-06-18T23:54:56Z")
> [@Anduinel](#): > > I just finished the novelization of the movie and there was an explanation for the Kirk joyride that I wish had made it into the film. Apparently the restored car actually belonged to Jim and George Kirk’s dead father. Their stepdad (nice enough when mom was around, but an ass as soon as she takes off for space again) ordered the kids to get it washed up so that he could sell it. George had enough and decided to run away from home. Jim decided to do the same, but used the car instead. Driving it off the cliff read like it was half spur-of-the-moment rebellion, half having only a vague idea of where the brakes were. I like this a bit better…keeps Jim Kirk as a troubled kid feeling the loss of his dad, but less of a jerkass. This makes me want to seek out the novelization. ---
**Author:** ![Anduinel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/848f3c/32.png) [@Anduinel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anduinel)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/1135 "2009-06-19T02:33:39Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > You know…I’m gonna have to be one of those people who says that only things on screen count. Hence my wish that it had made it into the movie. ---
**Author:** ![johnspartan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a183cd/32.png) [@johnspartan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnspartan)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/1136 "2009-06-19T18:34:41Z")
Ya know, it’s a bit of nitpickery, but it occurs to me… Kirk is told to enlist in Starfleet. It comes up multiple times. Enlist, this is your last chance, the ship for enlisting is about to leave. Well military history is and always has been you’re either enlisted _or_ you’re an officer. If you attend the Naval Academy, Military Academy, etc., as a student you graduate and are commissioned as an OFFICER. You’re not enlisted, and your career path is much different from that of an enlisted man. Kirk did not enlist in Starfleet. He attended Starfleet Academy to become an officer. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/1137 "2009-06-19T19:12:49Z")
> [@johnspartan](#): > > Ya know, it’s a bit of nitpickery, but it occurs to me… > > Kirk is told to enlist in Starfleet. It comes up multiple times. Enlist, this is your last chance, the ship for enlisting is about to leave. > > Well military history is and always has been you’re either enlisted _or_ you’re an officer. If you attend the Naval Academy, Military Academy, etc., as a student you graduate and are commissioned as an OFFICER. You’re not enlisted, and your career path is much different from that of an enlisted man. > > Kirk did not enlist in Starfleet. He attended Starfleet Academy to become an officer. I don’t think it’s a small nitpick. It’s emblematic of the way the film shows no regard whatsofuckingever for any sort of logic. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/1138 "2009-06-19T19:51:39Z")
> [@johnspartan](#): > > Ya know, it’s a bit of nitpickery, but it occurs to me… > > Kirk is told to enlist in Starfleet. It comes up multiple times. Enlist, this is your last chance, the ship for enlisting is about to leave. > > Well military history is and always has been you’re either enlisted _or_ you’re an officer. If you attend the Naval Academy, Military Academy, etc., as a student you graduate and are commissioned as an OFFICER. You’re not enlisted, and your career path is much different from that of an enlisted man. > > Kirk did not enlist in Starfleet. He attended Starfleet Academy to become an officer. It’s possible that he earn’s his commission as an officer only after successfully completing the academy. During the time he’s in the academy, he technically holds an enlisted rank (but addressed as “cadet”). ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/1139 "2009-06-19T20:39:19Z")
I’m okay with “enlist” meaning “join”, though it’s technically incorrect for officers seeking commission. I kinda object to Kirk getting commissioned as a Captain, though. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640/1140 "2009-06-19T20:44:51Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’m okay with “enlist” meaning “join”, though it’s technically incorrect for officers seeking commission. I kinda object to Kirk getting commissioned as a Captain, though. On the one hand, there’s precedent in canon for the (remarkably stupid) idea that all Starfleet personnel are “officers.” (Though in that case, the term “officer” no longer means anything.) And the language may have changed in consequence, so that _enlist_ merely means _join up_. But I’m still not willing to buy it. I’ve seen it twice now (as Mrs. Rhymer wanted to go this past Wednesday) and hated it each time. The movie has insufficient goodwill with me for me to cut the writers any slack. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640.md?page=56) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-i-saw-it-thread-spoilers/495640.md?page=58)