They wrote some good dialogue with nice characterization, and the director worked miracles with the script. But the writers gave us a terrible plot–and perhaps more importantly, a terrible exposition of the plot–and I would hope for better from a sequel. The dialogue and characterization and aesthetic were enough for me from this movie. But it’s not enough to sustain enthusiasm. Something more is needed.
The best ST scripts have always involved scripts that “make ya think,” whether it be about philosophical, political, or character issues. This movie made me think just a little bit about the characters, but if that’s all they can give us in future movies in the series, I’d rather they simply didn’t write any more of them at all.
Star Trek at its best has always been more substantial than people tend to give it credit for. This movie was not in that tradition, though. As much as I liked it, I was disappointed in many respects, and would expect better from future installments.
I was trying to figure why new Kirk would be so different than the description of original Kirk from the Series. (His different ships, his repuation as a walking encyclopedia…being too serious no mention of “Sam” Kirk) Bang! the obviousness smashed me
Right from his Birth he wasn’t the original Kirk… Spock, McCoy, Scotty et al would have the same origin and would (Had Vulcan not been Blown to Smithereens) have become exactly as they did in the series but not Jim boy… Instead he was changed from teh moment of Birth… His Father dead… his mother apparently away off world a lot, a new jerkish step dad… perhaps no brother (Was Sam older or younger?)
Perhaps his solution to the Kobyashi Mauru was different, maybe he wouldn’t have got the commendation for original thinking. Perhaps original Kirk went to the Acedemy earlier, studied harder, and changed the paramiters in a more unique way.
So yes, this new Kirk is a bitter self entitled Jerk, but I think he’ll be tempered by his responsibilities and the two personifications of his personality by his side to guide him.
According to wiki, originally Nero gets captured by Klingons for 25 years, but this confused audiences sothey changed it to waiting for Spock to get through the black hole
I think they had a lot of ground to cover and a lot of work to do while keeping modern audiences wowed with the special effects and action. There is simply no way they could have done it all and pleased the nitpickiest of fans, who are already predisposed to never being happy about Star Trek anyway.
It seems to me every criticism I hear, had it been fixed to the viewers satisfaction, would have slashed open a whole other bag of criticism. Pleasing the hardest core nit-pickers would never put enough butts in seats to keep this franchise going.
As many posters, I (mostly) enjoyed it while I wathched but, afterwards, was dissapointed by so many cliches and plot holes.
Despite that, the movie works as a “reset button” of the franchise: all the major characters are introduced, the main story is established, etc.
So I am eagerly waiting for the sequel, but that sequel better:
Don’t use Time travel as a plot device. I hate time travel.
Show Uhura naked. My God! that woman is beautifull.
Go back to the roots: It’s a big space, mostly empty and it has to be explored. It’s also very dangerous and is full of hot naked aliens (that’s a scientific fact).
Kill Jar Jar Binks.
After killing Jar Jar Binks have a ceremony and launch it’s coffin to a star. I don’t want him to resurrect like Spock.
Redesign the ship. Most of the areas looked like a water treatment plant and not like an starship.
Finally, now that they have “reseted” the franchise, deliver a good coherent story in which all that beautifull people can interact with each other in an entertaining and meaningfull way. I suggest that they employ the scriptwriter of Magnolia.
Saw it yesterday in IMAX and I enjoyed it tremendously. I don’t concern myself too much with some of the details that seem to be concerning others. I do think it failed tremendoulsy in showing Kirk’s growth. Early Kirk was a wanker, later Kirk wasn’t. Wha’ happened?
I did find one thing, subtely, that wasa reference. I cannot rememeber exactly what the deeal was, but Spock said he was going somewhere and Kirk said he was coming along. Spock said he would cite regulation, but he knew Kirk wouldn’t listen. I felt that was a bt of a shout out to how in the original series the Captain, Frst Mate, and Chief Medical Officer were frequently all sent down to the surface of a new planet (along witha couple of redshirts), clearly something that would not be standard regulations.
I got the feeling Kirk was made first mate because Capt. Pike felt he was the one who could actually captain the ship effectively after Spock. Remember the whole crew was pretty much cadets. It wasn’t a permanent promotion, necessarily.
I don’t consider myself a very picky fan. I watched TOS when it came out, and several times in re-runs. I have seen maybe 1/2 the movies, some of TNG, a bit of Voyager, and I doubt more than one or two episodes of the other shows. When people talk about canon, I usually go :rolleyes:.
The problem is I want to believe, I want to be seduced by the story, but when a plot hole that is so big you could drive a starship through it sideways appears, it tears me right out of the story and has me going WTF?
If only you hadn’t said “sideways,” I could have cheekily pointed to the fact, in a way, this is exactly what the writers did. Black hole, Plot hole, same difference in this case.
The fanwanker in me wants to say that, genetically, 2009!Kirk is actually the counterpart of George Samuel Kirk, 1960s! Kirk elder brother. I’d give my reasoning, but I don’t feel geeky enough today.
I’m not sure I’m understanding you. Are you saying Kirk at about ~12 years old, the car thief, was a wanker, but Kirk at ~22, the smug cheater, was not? Or are you saying that 2009 movie Kirk was a wanker, whereas TV show/first 6 movies Kirk is not a wanker?
The former. Besides outsmarting Spock (yes he cheated, but I think he had a point), what other evidence do we have that he wasn’t a model student. Well regarded in many ways by his teachers. Pike certainly thought highly of him. It is very clear during the second half of the movie that he is very motivated by protecting the crew and doing what is best, he is not selfish.
As one of the original trekkies:
Yes, I saw the original show, when it was broadcast. Back then we thought it was cooler than Lost in Space.
Yes, I wrote NBC and Paramount. Probably one of the few letters I ever wrote(The other one’s were to “Man From U.N.C.L.E.”'s “Ilya Kuryakin” and to DC comic’s “Metal Men”)
The movie made me both profoundly happy and profoundly sad. I realized that I had to let go of the past series; after all, I still could watch them on the Net. The reboot was good enough to ensure there will be a continuation, in some form, of Star Trek.
Did they really have to bring back the fucking miniskirts? :mad: Pure sexism. All the women (who are all young & pretty) get to show off their legs to the delight the male officers. I did like the show of Kirk in his briefs, but they could just as easily have had him naked and kept the PG-13 rating. One brief butt shot and cut to him holding something ove his privates while beign thrown out. The special effects were great. The plot sucked. It’s bad enough that Kirk went directly from cadet to captain of a starship, but Chekov was already an ensign at 17; this is worse than Wesley. It would’ve been nice if they at least gave Sulu a throwaway line about a boyfriend.
Why would Sulu mention a boyfriend? Takei is gay, but the only evidence we have of Sulu’s sexuality is his having a daughter, which implies heterosexuality.
Saw the movie over the weekend. I so much don’t want to be a fanboy and geek out over what they did wrong. I so want to relax my brain and enjoy the flow. But I can’t, at least for this thread. (Everyone has probably already said all this, but it’s my turn.)
Let’s see, a Star Trek Film with Time Travel, aliens with names taken from Human culture, unexplained science gimmicks (red matter) - how can this possibly be bad?
First, I am really tired of the Star Trek Time Travel Reboot[sup]TM[/sup]. Enterprise murdered that one.
Okay, let’s accept that premise to allow us to reboot the franchise, reset the characters, and free the future to be new, not tied to the old timeline. Okay, I’ll go with the flow.
What they got right:
The movie was fast-paced and exciting. It was fun. It was funny but also had serious moments.
Most of the actors did a great job of recreating the characters, not necessarily the previous actors. Karl Urban was spot on for looking and sounding like McCoy. Simon Pegg was a great Scotty - maybe just a bit too excited. Zachary Quinto made Spock feel real, like an emotional being that tries to subdue and contain his emotions. Uhura was not only really sexy, but also smart and competent and talented at her job.
The effects were well-made.
They did a pretty good job of recreating the old uniforms in look and feel.
Not sure what to make of Kirk. The actor did a good portrayal. I could feel along with him. Yes, he was a total a-hole in the bar, even if the Starfleet guys were pricks. Through the rest of the action, he did seem genuinely concerned about everyone else rather than himself or his own image. And he certainly wasn’t the hammy Kirk that Shatner tended to be.
I think the difference was supposed to be conveyed in that bar scene wrap up, where Pike challenged him with his father. I think he was supposed to have taken the message to heart, and set out to be somebody, to live up to the standard of his father that he never met. He was still wild and a bit unruly, but at least he had a purpose in life other than being a dick.’
Things they messed up:
Nero’s motivation. He’s mad at Spock for promising to save Romulus then failing? As opposed to being mad at Spock for doing nothing, which is what he claims, but it’s clear Spock was doing something, and Spock didn’t destroy Romulus with the red matter, Romulus was already gone when Spock deployed the red matter. At least if Romulus had been an unexpected consequence of Spock’s action that might have worked.
All the other Romulans. "Hey Nero, we traveled back in time. Let’s do something useful. Like steal the red matter, then travel to the time just before the Supernova wave hits Romulus, and deploy the red matter in front of it. Yeah, save our Romulus in the future. Or was the time travel only one way, and only done once by each vehicle? Because that was unclear, what with the space lightning and the glowing cloud thingy.
The concept of chain of command. Pretty much any military protocol, but especially the lack of a chain of command. “You’re captain now.” WTF? That isn’t a typical scenario - “Hey, I’m going on shore leave, you’re captain now.” Okay, I realize the theory was each time the Captain thought he was going to be killed, so he was breveting the guy behind him. But it was silly how it was executed, and not logged in to computers or anything, just said in passing as he was leaving. And seriously, there were no other officers on the Enterprise? It truly was Captain Pike, Commander Spock, and then a crew of not even graduated cadets?
Kirk getting thrown off the ship.
Scotty and Transwarp transport. Bah. That’s not Scotty saving the day, that’s Spock Prime saving the day, and Scotty coming along for the ride.
The Romulan mining ship. Everything about it. Mining by blasting a big hole that destroys the matter, instead of, you know, collecting it. Drilling to the core of a planet. Guess what? Drill a hole to the core, you don’t need red matter to turn the planet into a black hole, it’s going to have some serious troubles already.
How does a tiny drop of red matter get activated and become super massive?
Sulu - the gimmick with the ship not going to warp was an homage to Search for Spock and the Excelsior, but it was pretty dumb. But then Sulu was sitting in for the real helmsman, who was sick, and he was nervous, never actually done it before. Chalk it up to failing to follow the checklist?
Besides that, in general the character was hard to tie to the original Sulu. Though this Sulu was apparently adept at Chinese martial arts (jumps during sword work not typical of fencing).
The timeline. What really bugs me about the timeline is not anything that could conceivably changed by this point forward. I will accept Nero’s arrival changed the future. I’ll accept that Kirk is different because his dad died. But it’s still awkward having Kirk, McCoy, Sulu, and Uhura in the same class at the Academy. The ages are off. Nevermind throwing in Chekov.
Actually, the ages are all weird. Checking Wiki and the previous post,
Grace Lee Whitney is actually older than Shatner. And Koenig was actually older than Takei, playing 8 years younger. Doohan and Kelley are the same age, 11 years older than Shatner, but Scotty is five years younger than McCoy and McCoy is only 5 years older than Kirk.
Anyway, they explained it by having Scotty already in Starfleet, and McCoy signing up late in life. But that leaves Chekov. They mention he’s 17, to Kirk’s what, 24? So that would put Chekov having signed up (NOT enlisted!) at 14? Or was he in his first year? But then surely someone would think he needs to go back to the Academy, even though he actually made it through a mission. I mean surely. Oh, this is Starfleet. Nevermind.
My point - in TOS, Chekov, who was ~10 years younger than Kirk, was an Ensign (lowest officer rank). Presumably he was a normal officer with a normal career, meaning his age was appropriate to his rank. Now, in this universe, Chekov is in the Academy at 17. Even if he was his first year, that would put him graduating at 21. Say he’s 10 years younger than Kirk (giving Kirk leeway on age in this film). In TOS, that would make him an Ensign for 4 years before getting assigned to Enterprise. Right? So was Chekov the slowest ranking officer in Starfleet History?
I guess the fanwank is that somehow the destruction of the Kelvin led to Chekov signing up earlier. Maybe Starfleet upped the recruiting advertising?
Which leads me to the end. Okay, I can buy the Enterprise was newly built - that was it when Kirk signed up. So it was just about to be crewed for the maiden voyage. I can accept that because of the emergency when they thought Vulcan needed a rescue mission, Starfleet felt it acceptable to crew the ship largely (fully?) with cadets, especially since many were nearing graduation. (Did they only take the graduates, or all active cadets?) But then after the mission, they leave the crew full of cadets/new grads? Only 2 real officers in the ship (Spock and Scotty), and one of those technically a last minute readdition? It defies any sort of military sense. Oh wait, this is Starfleet, nevermind.
Amanda Grayson’s dress was fugly. Okay, I guess it’s a Vulcan style, and they don’t want to be too sexy because that would elicit emotions. Yeah, that’s why she had a cardboard tube around her breasts. (Totally didn’t recognize Winona Ryder.)
*Centaurian eels (were these supposed to be the Ceti Alpha brain worms?) So I went to the movie with a couple friends, one commenting she was massively traumatized by Wrath of Khan and hadn’t watched much ST since then because of the brain worms. So when they pulled them out in this movie, I turned to her and said I’m sorry.
Spock/Uhura relationship. Not necessary. Though my friend pegged it faster than I did. He caught it at the “didn’t want the appearance of favoritism” line, whereas I didn’t catch on till she was mooning over him and he went to the elevator and she followed. At least that explains why Kirk never hit that.
Okay, people have said the supernova was threatening the Galaxy. I don’t recall that from the movie. I recall them saying a supernova near Romulus went off, which is why Romulus was toast. Did they actually say in the movie the supernova was threatening elsewhere? Or was that only in press writups summarizing the plot? 'Cause we all know how accurate those are.
Half Man Half Wit said:
Actually, it just shows he a rebellious idiot. He’s not racing anyone, he stole the car for a joyride that gets out of hand when he pushes it too far and the cop starts chasing him. He doesn’t plan what he’s doing, he just drives until he realizes he made a mistake, and he’s not afraid of consequences. Which is fortunate for him the cop is a robot. Because after that car went over the cliff, I would have been tempted to pitch him after, and report that he died in the crash, poor stupid kid.
**pepperlandgirl ** said:
I’m more sophisticated now. But to some extent, I did then. I guess it’s difficult to recapture that spirit of youthful entertainment. I scrutinize things a lot more now.
Keeve said:
Yeah, well, he got an actual commendation instead, so the Kobayashi Maru thing kinda got quietly dropped. You can also fanwank that this Kirk had a different cheat to the test because he was a different Kirk.
As for the green chick, I think what seemed wrong was the red hair and lips, not black hair. She didn’t look complete.
