# Star Trek: The old and the New **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 19, 2009, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-old-and-the-new/518169 "2009-11-19T17:38:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-old-and-the-new/518169/1 "2009-11-19T17:38:47Z")
I just watched Star Trek (2009) movie on DVD last night. I liked it in the theater and I enjoyed the “reboot” of the classic series. But if the timeline has been changed that means that some classic Trek adventures won’t happen. Just off of the top of my head: [ul] [li]Maybe I missed it, but didn’t Kirk have a brother in TOS? If his brother does not exist thanks to the timeline being altered, then will the episode with the Fried Egg Monsters (I can’t recall the name) happen? In that episode Kirk went to visit his brother and only his nephew survived the attack on the planet. (also we find out that Vulcans have an inner eyelid) [/li][li]In The Original Series Kirk says that he was an officer on the USS Farragut. (Can’t remember the ep. name) One of his junior officers is the son of the former captain of that ship. This man becomes integral in the plot to destroy the blood sucking cloud monster. But in the new timeline Kirk didn’t surve on the Farragut. So perhaps the Enterprise will not encounter that threat.[/li][li]In the Original Series The Federation is unaware that Romulans and Vulcans are pretty much the same race. They had never seen a Romulan until the episode where they see the Romulan Commander on the screen. But now they’ve seen Nero. Will that alter things in the new timeline in any way?[/li][li]The Menagerie won’t happen unless its heavily retconned. Captain Pike was last seen in a wheelchair but otherwise healthy, not a mute horribly scarred crippled man like in that episode.[/li][li]Amok Time won’t happen since T’Pring was squished into a singularity with the rest of Vulcan. Unless its retconned to say she was off planet at the time, I guess. [/li][/ul] What other episodes or adventures from the classic series do you think may or may not happen in the new timeline? ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-old-and-the-new/518169/2 "2009-11-19T17:45:16Z")
I think the whole point of the reboot was so the producers could do anything they want. They can re-do those episodes if they like, or wave them away as never having happened. It’s a giant “do-over.” I’m not sure I’m in favor of it, but I understand the desire for a clean slate. ---
**Author:** ![LiveOnAPlane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3d9bf3/32.png) [@LiveOnAPlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LiveOnAPlane)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-old-and-the-new/518169/3 "2009-11-19T17:45:16Z")
I’m gonna go out on a limb and say pretty much all of them, IMHO. The reason being that the Romulans arrive at a point of time way early, just before James T. Kirk is born, and then proceed to make some seriously major changes to things. So major that it is a flaming miracle that young Kirk even wound up in Starfleet instead of in jail. I think it likely that none of the episodes in TOS will occur in this one…which is not to say that they can’t have equally “interesting” adventures; they’ll just be different. Just my 2 cents, feel free to disagree. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-old-and-the-new/518169/4 "2009-11-19T17:48:39Z")
It’s not so much a reboot as it is an alternate time-line. The original ST universe still exists. Watch your DVDs. It’s still there. This is just a new leg on the Trousers of Time.© ---
**Author:** ![BMax](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bmax/32/4267_2.png) [@BMax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMax)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-old-and-the-new/518169/5 "2009-11-19T17:52:54Z")
Will Kirk end up bloated, wearing a hairpeice and a girdle? ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-old-and-the-new/518169/6 "2009-11-19T17:55:48Z")
> [@Jolly\_Roger](#): > > Maybe I missed it, but didn’t Kirk have a brother in TOS? He did in the movie, too. He drives past him in the stolen car. > [@](#): > > But now they’ve seen Nero. Will that alter things in the new timeline in any way? Nero personally made far more changes to the timeline than early contact with the Romulans could have on its own - and seems to have sped up contact with the local timeline’s Romulans. Balance of Terror won’t happen in this timeline - or else the analogous story already happened a decade or so ago. The other changes are…well, some version of them could theoretically happen in the new timeline, but they’ll be different in some substantive way. But, as mentioned, that’s the point of a reboot - remove old canon, get a fresh start. Then, if you want, you can go ahead and bring in old aspects of canon that you feel fit and would be entertaining in the new canon. And completely discard stories you don’t think fit, or don’t work for some other reason. And tell stories that wouldn’t fit in the old canon. ---
**Author:** ![kasuo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8c91f0/32.png) [@kasuo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kasuo)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-old-and-the-new/518169/7 "2009-11-19T18:05:40Z")
There are rumors of having Khan in the next movie. His sleeper ship and crew are still out there somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-old-and-the-new/518169/8 "2009-11-19T18:08:31Z")
So how will TOS Spock work with in this new alternate timeline? Will he provide info to Starfleet about the _SS Botany Bay_, and the Organians, and the planet killer? Will the immortal “KHAAAAANNNN!!!” never be uttered by Admiral Kirk? ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-old-and-the-new/518169/9 "2009-11-19T18:32:36Z")
> [@kasuo](#): > > There are rumors of having Khan in the next movie. His sleeper ship and crew are still out there somewhere. I just saw on [io9.com](http://io9.com) that Nestor Carbonelle (did I get the name right?) may play Khan. That could work for me. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-old-and-the-new/518169/10 "2009-11-19T18:36:37Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > So how will TOS Spock work with in this new alternate timeline? Will he provide info to Starfleet about the _SS Botany Bay_, and the Organians, and the planet killer? Will the immortal “KHAAAAANNNN!!!” never be uttered by Admiral Kirk? You’d think he will, since the timeline is messed up already. He can trivialize a lot of the old episodes. “There is this planet killer floating around - just get a big remote control bomb, drive it down its maw, and it is done.” Ditto for the Puppet Master ripoff in Operation Annihilate. However, if I were Spock, I’d head for the time portal in City on the Edge of Forever and check out going back to fix the problem at the source. That will save two worlds, and be morally justifiable. ---
**Author:** ![Emily\_Litella](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/emily_litella/32/3370_2.png) [@Emily\_Litella](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emily_Litella)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-old-and-the-new/518169/11 "2009-11-19T18:47:04Z")
In the Wrath of Khan I noticed they put those (bleeeech - shudder) scorpion-like bugs in people’s ears to get them to spill the truth. In the new alternate timeline (that’s how I see it) they put them in people’s mouths. Putting them in the ear seems worse to me than putting them in someone’s mouth. It’s kind of like Fear Factor. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-old-and-the-new/518169/12 "2009-11-19T18:48:21Z")
> [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](#): > > I just saw on [io9.com](http://io9.com) that Nestor Carbonelle (did I get the name right?) may play Khan. That could work for me. This [Nestor Carbonell](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22EhKh7qcQo)? I don’t know which recasting is worse, this or Matthey McConaughey as Thomas Magnum. Though Nestor did play Senor Senior Jr. to Montalban’s Senor Senior Sr. on _Kim Possible_. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-old-and-the-new/518169/13 "2009-11-19T18:53:37Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > So how will TOS Spock work with in this new alternate timeline? Will he provide info to Starfleet about the _SS Botany Bay_, and the Organians, and the planet killer? Will the immortal “KHAAAAANNNN!!!” never be uttered by Admiral Kirk? OMG. With all the stuff he knows about, what if this is the true origin of the Mirror Universe? (Empress Hoshi notwithstanding.) ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-old-and-the-new/518169/14 "2009-11-19T19:00:43Z")
There are plot holes you can drive a starship through, but who cares? They have the ensemble right, and restored some excitement to a franchise that was getting pretty moribund. Forget the old continuity and enjoy the new, much as we did with Battlestar Galactica. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-old-and-the-new/518169/15 "2009-11-19T19:08:09Z")
Trouble is, they wanted it both ways, by including a time-travelling character from the familiar history. Had Nimoy’s Spock died in the course of this movie, the new history would be firmly established, but with his still around, there’s no reason why he can’t (and indeed wouldn’t) advise his younger self and newKirk. The half-measures are disappointing - I’d’ve been more impressed if they’d severed all ties and reimagined the characters even more aggressively. With Nimoy around, there’s the constantly reminded that this isn’t “real” Trek, it only exists because real Trek lets it. Well, that plus the movie made no sense, even aside from Nimoy. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-old-and-the-new/518169/16 "2009-11-19T19:21:25Z")
> [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](#): > > I just saw on [io9.com](http://io9.com) that Nestor Carbonelle (did I get the name right?) may play Khan. That could work for me. They haven’t even written the movie yet. And some random dude not even involved with the movie just said that Nestor Carbonel would be a good Khan. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-old-and-the-new/518169/17 "2009-11-19T19:22:22Z")
I’m inclined to agree with Bryan. I was all for a reimagining; bringing in Nimoy really brought me out of the movie. The funny thing is, the movie’s got more holes in it than Sonny Corleone and none of that bothered me. The plot was almost total nonsense. But I was happy to overlook them all; it was silly, but fun. But Nimoy just ruined it every moment he was on screen. It was like they just didn’t _quite_ have the guts to truly redo the franchise. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-old-and-the-new/518169/18 "2009-11-19T19:31:01Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > They haven’t even written the movie yet. And some random dude not even involved with the movie just said that Nestor Carbonel would be a good Khan. Ha, [you’re right](http://io9.com/5407809/is-nestor-carbonell-bringing-his-guylinered-stare-to-star-treks-khan). That shows me for not reading the whole thing. In my defense, I saw it at home and didn’t read it all the way through because io9 has the long, suckie load times and I’d rather read it at work on a more robust workstation. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-old-and-the-new/518169/19 "2009-11-19T19:33:02Z")
Heck, it might’ve been fun if Nimoy had been playing a human - a blond human! ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-old-and-the-new/518169/20 "2009-11-19T19:34:19Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I’m inclined to agree with Bryan. I was all for a reimagining; bringing in Nimoy really brought me out of the movie. > > The funny thing is, the movie’s got more holes in it than Sonny Corleone and none of that bothered me. The plot was almost total nonsense. But I was happy to overlook them all; it was silly, but fun. But Nimoy just ruined it every moment he was on screen. It was like they just didn’t _quite_ have the guts to truly redo the franchise. Maybe the producers felt that they had to have some kind of figurative “passing of the torch”. “These are truly the annointed heirs…” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-old-and-the-new/518169.md?page=2)