# Star Trek: The test that can't be passed? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 13, 2002, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-test-that-cant-be-passed/136615 "2002-11-13T20:48:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![RavingMad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/edb3f5/32.png) [@RavingMad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RavingMad)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-test-that-cant-be-passed/136615/1 "2002-11-13T20:48:55Z")
Upon learning that I kind of like Star Trek, a new co-worker (I’m the new one – not her) made reference to the test that can’t be passed. She was quite disappointed when I didn’t get it. I want to redeem myself in her eyes, but have had no luck finding the meaning through a yahoo search. I don’t know whether the Star Trek reference in question is the original series, a movie, TNG, or some other spinoff. And so I turn now to you. What exactly is “the test that cannot be passed?” Thanks, all. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-test-that-cant-be-passed/136615/2 "2002-11-13T20:53:46Z")
Probably the “Kobayashi Maru” which was given to Savik at the beginning of “Wrath of Khan” and referenced as only being passed by one student ever (Kirk). I believe there was a loooong thread about it on this forum a while ago, you might try a search…Timmy ---
**Author:** ![Kid\_Gilligan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@Kid\_Gilligan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kid_Gilligan)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-test-that-cant-be-passed/136615/3 "2002-11-13T20:55:11Z")
The Kobiyashi Maru. I don’t remember the exact details, but it is a computer simulation that cadets at the Starfleet Academy are put through. It involves something of a Hobson’s choice whereby the cadet is given two choices, each of which will lead to certain (simulated of course) death. Kirk is the only cadet to have ever passed the Kobiyashi Maru, which he accomplished by reprogramming the simulation. (cheating) Some of our fellow dopers will, no doubt, be able to answer this question more completely including, probably, the correct spelling of Kobiyashi Maru. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-test-that-cant-be-passed/136615/4 "2002-11-13T20:56:25Z")
In “Star Trek 2: The Wrath of Khan,” Lieutenant Saavik (Kirstie Alley) is shown taking “the Kobayashi-Maru Test.” Someone who’s a much bigger sci-fi geek than myself can tell you specifics, but essentially, it sets up a scenario in which the captain of a starship gets into a no-win situation against the Romulans, even if he/she does everything correctly, by the book. Basically, the test is designed to see how a potential commander would deal with defeat and death. There isn’t SUPPOSED to be any way the starship can escape destruction or capture by the Romulans. However, later in the movie, Saavik asks if Captain Kirk ever took the test. It turns out that, years earlier, Kirk took the test, and beat it- by cheating. He somehow re-rigged the computer to allow a way out. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-test-that-cant-be-passed/136615/5 "2002-11-13T21:13:02Z")
This sets up one of the greatest moments in ST lore, and one that showcases why Picard will never be Kirk. The opening of the movie, as **Tim R. Mortiss** says, shows Lt. Saavik in command of a starship, answering a distress call from the freighter Kobayashi-Maru. When she orders her ship across the neutral zone to assist the troubled freighter, she’s attacked by Romulans in overwhelming force. Everything she tries to evade the attack fails, and her command seems certain to be destroyed. At that point, the wall lifts to reveal that the bridge was actually a training environment. Kirk comes out and provides feedback for her. Later in the movie, she opines that the test wasn’t really a fair one - there was no way to win. Kirk responds that the idea isn’t to win; it’s a test of character and how you respond to the no-win scenario. Still later, the situation is grim for the characters. They are trapped on the Genesis planetoid with the Enterprise crippled for at least two days, as Spock has informed them via communicator. Kahn has stolen the Genesis device and left. With nothing to do but wait for the Enterprise to be repaired, Saavik asks Kirk what he did in the Kobayashi-Maru test when he was a cadet. McCoy chimes in that Kirk is the only cadet ever to beat the no-win scenario. Kirk then reveals that he re-programmed the simulator so that it was possible to rescue the ship. Saavik is stunned. “You cheated?” Kirk replies, “I changed the conditions of the test. I got a commendation for original thinking. I don’t like to lose.” Saavik: “Then you never faced that situation.” Kirk says, “I don’t believe in the no-win scenario.” And opening his communicator, he signals the Enterprise: “Mr. Spock - it’s been two hours - are you ready?” Spock had, of course, been speaking over an open frequency to confuse the listening Kahn. Repairs needed onyl two hours, not two days, the Enterprise was ready to beam them aboard and pursue Kahn, and as the rest of the landing party stares agape at this news, Kirk repeats: “I don’t like to lose.” - Rick ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-test-that-cant-be-passed/136615/6 "2002-11-13T21:19:27Z")
This also shows that Saavik doesn’t listen–she says he never faced the no-win situation, but she was just told that he faced it _twice_, then cheated on the third time so that he could win. ---
**Author:** ![RavingMad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/edb3f5/32.png) [@RavingMad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RavingMad)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-test-that-cant-be-passed/136615/7 "2002-11-13T21:28:11Z")
Now, if I could just figure out what exactly she meant by bringing up that reference. She doesn’t like to lose? She considers our workplace to be a no-win situation? She’ll cheat to get ahead? She’s afraid of being attacked by Romulans? The mind boggles… ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-test-that-cant-be-passed/136615/8 "2002-11-13T21:37:17Z")
[nitpick]Folks, it was the **KLINGONS** Saavik was fighting in the simulator, not the Romulans!!! (They used Klingons so that they could recycle the footage from ST: TMP.) Remember what Saavik asks Kirk when he steps into the simulator? Saavik: Any advice, Admiral? Kirk:Prayer, Mr. Saavik. The Klingons don’t take prisoners. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-test-that-cant-be-passed/136615/9 "2002-11-13T21:40:36Z")
My vote is on the Romulans. I was building a fort myself to keep those pesky pointy eared trolls away from my workplace, until my boss yelled at me and i had to put all the lab equipment back where it came from. He must have been Romulan controlled. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-test-that-cant-be-passed/136615/10 "2002-11-13T22:07:13Z")
I think I remember a ST book where Kirk’s nephew joined Star Fleet, and beat the KM by realizing the captain’s job is to save the ship, not his own life. Wasn’t there a commander test that Troi took? She realized the only way she could pass the test was by sending Geordi to his death, so the ship could be saved. The test was whether you could knowingly send a crew member to his death to save the ship. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-test-that-cant-be-passed/136615/11 "2002-11-13T22:13:54Z")
Your workmate may be talking about an episode of Star Trek TNG where Wesley Crusher is taking the entrance tests for Star Fleet Academy. While he’s waiting for his final test, an expolsion destroys a lab down the hall. Wesley rushes in to help and finds two men – one who can’t escape, and one who is uninjured, but is afraid to move. Wesley drags out the injured man, only to find out that was his final test. I believe the instructor noted “there is no passing grade. It is a test of how you respond.” I believe “Klingons do not take prisoners” was from an episode of the TV series, although they may have used it in the movie, as well. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-test-that-cant-be-passed/136615/12 "2002-11-13T22:23:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by astorian \* > **There isn’t SUPPOSED to be any way the starship can escape destruction or capture by the Romulans.** IIRC, some civillians get killed, too. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-test-that-cant-be-passed/136615/13 "2002-11-13T22:56:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cliffy \* > \*\* > > IIRC, some civillians get killed, too. > > –Cliffy \*\* That’s never conclusively established. The whole thing could be a trap set by the Klingons to snag a Federation vessel. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2002, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-test-that-cant-be-passed/136615/14 "2002-11-14T00:10:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ivylass \* > \*\*…Wasn’t there a commander test that Troi took? She realized the only way she could pass the test was by sending Geordi to his death, so the ship could be saved. The test was whether you could knowingly send a crew member to his death to save the ship. \*\* That was one of the few times I liked a Troi story. The simulated look of Geordi’s face was the best part. To get back at Starfleet for creating this test, Troi destroyed the Enterprise-D. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2002, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-test-that-cant-be-passed/136615/15 "2002-11-14T02:39:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr. Blue Sky \* > \*\* > \ > > To get back at Starfleet for creating this test, Troi destroyed the Enterprise-D. 😃 \*\* Oh, like _that’s_ hard to do! :rolleyes: It took Kirk fifteen years, the death of his best friend, a promotion, and an act of “dereliction of duty” before Kirk got into a situation where _his Enterprise_ blew up, and then it was becasue he’d turned the thing into a giant booby-trap to kill Klingons when he was totally out-numbered. The NexGen crew couldn’t make it through, what? Three seasons without the ship getting blown up because Wesley hit the wrong control button or something. [old grumpy nerd]Bah! Kids these days! They don’t know what it was like! They couldn’t have survived back when I was young, with no SciFi channel, crappy syndicated science fiction shows or _Star Wars_ movies out every couple of years! We only had one _Star Trek_ and that was good enough for us! Why, if we wanted more _Star Trek_, we had to make it up! We didn’t have fifteen channels showing it all the time![/ogn] ---
**Author:** ![WSLer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a6a055/32.png) [@WSLer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WSLer)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2002, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-test-that-cant-be-passed/136615/16 "2002-11-14T02:57:24Z")
There is a **Star Trek** novel called _The Kobayashi Maru_. The story revolves around Sulu, Kirk, Chekov and Scotty, who are all stranded in a shuttlecraft or something, and to pass the time before they are rescued in the last five pages of the book, they all tell of their experience with the Kobayshi Maru scenario. Scotty actually does pretty well and manages to take out about 12 Klingon ships. It’s worht picking up cause it gives some insight into the background of the scenario. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2002, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-test-that-cant-be-passed/136615/17 "2002-11-14T07:05:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by WSLer \* > \*\*There is a **Star Trek** novel called _The Kobayashi Maru_. The story revolves around Sulu, Kirk, Chekov and Scotty, who are all stranded in a shuttlecraft or something, and to pass the time before they are rescued in the last five pages of the book, they all tell of their experience with the Kobayshi Maru scenario. Scotty actually does pretty well and manages to take out about 12 Klingon ships. It’s worht picking up cause it gives some insight into the background of the scenario. \*\* * * * Good book. It also gives insight into the personalities and behavioral tendencies of those who figure out different ways to deal with the scenario. That’s a big part of the test. I still have a bit of a problem with Troi’s command test. She took it repeatedly, Riker told her “no more,” then she did it again once she figured out what she was supposed to do, and he relented. And then she made Data call her “Sir.” What kind of a test is it when you can take it as many times as you want until you pass? ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2002, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-test-that-cant-be-passed/136615/18 "2002-11-14T08:27:03Z")
> [@](#): > > What kind of a test is it when you can take it as many times as you want until you pass? A driving test! ::rimshot:: ---
**Author:** ![SolGrundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@SolGrundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SolGrundy)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2002, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-test-that-cant-be-passed/136615/19 "2002-11-14T11:06:40Z")
So here’s my hijack: I’m not particularly a fan of “Star Trek;” I never make it a point to watch any of the series, I’ve never been an avid viewer of the show, the only movie that I really liked was _The Wrath of Khan_ and I can’t remember seeing any of the others except for the first one (which I hated, and still hate). BUT, just by virtue of being a computer programmer or whatever, I know _thousands of pointless details_ about the show and movies. Not by any effort on my part, just through osmosis or something. It scares me to think that I’m probably fluent in Klingon, subconsciously. One time years ago, when I was an assistant sysadmin in my school’s unix lab, a friend of mine in the CS department was talking about his finals. This was the friend who was _really deeply_ into “Star Trek;” he had the Starfleet Academy bumper sticker, had all kinds of “I Grok Spok” and communicator badges on his backpack, the works. So he said that he didn’t have any time to study for his written finals because he had to work in the CS lab, and didn’t have any time to work in the CS lab because of lab exams for other classes. He ended with “It’s a real Kobayashi Maru all around.” And what frightened me was not so much that he used the phrase in causal conversation, but that _I knew exactly what he was talking about_. ---
**Author:** ![lawoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/35a633/32.png) [@lawoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawoot)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2002, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-test-that-cant-be-passed/136615/20 "2002-11-14T12:04:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by WSLer \* > \*\*There is a **Star Trek** novel called _The Kobayashi Maru_. The story revolves around Sulu, Kirk, Chekov and Scotty, who are all stranded in a shuttlecraft or something, and to pass the time before they are rescued in the last five pages of the book, they all tell of their experience with the Kobayshi Maru scenario. Scotty actually does pretty well and manages to take out about 12 Klingon ships. It’s worht picking up cause it gives some insight into the background of the scenario. \*\* Kirk’s cheating bit was hilarious! after re-programming the computer, he takes that test. After crossing into the neutral zone, he is confronted by the Klingons, and identifies himself as “Captain James T. Kirk” The Klingon Commander does a double take, and says “Kirk? THE James T. Kirk?” The Klingons then aid in the rescue, and Kirk gets invited to dine with the captain. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-test-that-cant-be-passed/136615.md?page=2)