# Star Trek: The Two Spocks **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 27, 2009, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-two-spocks/519110 "2009-11-27T08:30:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2009, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-two-spocks/519110/1 "2009-11-27T08:30:34Z")
Okay, before I wrote this, I googled “time travel paradox” and a lot of what I read, I didn’t “grasp” so maybe one of you could enlighten me? Here’s the way I always understood it: A person travelling back in time to correct something cannot ever meet himself, since the two can’t exist in the same place at the same time. So if he stays out of sight of his younger self, maybe he’ll succeed. This guy: [Time Travel - Meeting Yourself](http://www.cix.co.uk/~antcom/my1.html) contradicts me, it seems. He even has 2 bar graphs and a short story to go with it, with not one, but **two** of the same person meeting their younger self. I’m sure there’s an explanation as to how it was done in _Trek_ so that the two Spocks _could_ talk to each other face to face, but I may not have been paying attention, so that’s why I’m asking y’all. Thanks Q ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2009, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-two-spocks/519110/2 "2009-11-27T08:56:26Z")
First of all, that rule is true for only certain works. Definitely not true for [All You Zombies](http://ieng9.ucsd.edu/~mfedder/zombies.html) by Heinlein. Second, the new Trek is on a different time line. The Spock there is not the same as the Spock from the original timeline, will never become him, and, since the timelines have diverged, it is too late for any action by the old Spock to cause any harm, ---
**Author:** ![kombatminipig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5ac83/32.png) [@kombatminipig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kombatminipig)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2009, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-two-spocks/519110/3 "2009-11-27T10:26:24Z")
Think multi-universe interpretation. They are not the same person. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2009, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-two-spocks/519110/4 "2009-11-27T10:29:29Z")
These are Timecop rules not Back to the Future or even Bill and Ted rules. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2009, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-two-spocks/519110/5 "2009-11-27T15:45:04Z")
I don’t recall the episode title but Spock went back to give some advice to his younger self in TOS. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2009, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-two-spocks/519110/6 "2009-11-27T15:51:57Z")
> [@Quasimodem](#): > > A person travelling back in time to correct something cannot ever meet himself, since the two can’t exist in the same place at the same time. Who says? It’s hardly an explored area of science. All you have to go on are some random theories and the inventions of some science-fiction authors. Certainly many sci-fi shows allow a time-traveller to meet himself. Star Trek has clearly put itself firmly in that camp. It’s just as valid as any other sci-fi science. ---
**Author:** ![DirkGntly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DirkGntly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DirkGntly)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2009, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-two-spocks/519110/7 "2009-11-27T16:14:17Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > It’s hardly an explored area of science. Not true. But we’re not allowed to talk about it while we’re here… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2009, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-two-spocks/519110/8 "2009-11-27T16:32:40Z")
I really like this topic, even though I don’t understand the physics involved. I do understand the wormhole theory a bit, though. I may be wrong in my wording, but one enters the hole and enters into a space that is _pliable_ (and here’s where I falter) and travels across/into it’s surface to the time he wants? In the Star Trek commentary, J J Abrams does discuss it, but only to the degree of saying “It was _fated_ that they meet.” Correct me please, in the unlikely event:):)🙂 that I’m wrong! Thanks Q ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2009, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-two-spocks/519110/9 "2009-11-27T16:40:22Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > I don’t recall the episode title but Spock went back to give some advice to his younger self in TOS. Not in TOS, but ther was an episode of the animated series where Spock had to go back to a time in his earlier life to keep himself from being killed at a young age. We got to see his pet sehlat. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2009, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-two-spocks/519110/10 "2009-11-27T17:38:00Z")
I remember Kirk asking Spock if Spock remembers his childhood and being visited by someone who resembles him in the present. ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2009, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-two-spocks/519110/11 "2009-11-27T17:42:12Z")
There’s nothing special about a person meeting him/herself at a different point in time. If you were to say that two of the same particle can’t meet itself at a different point in time, then that would pretty much make time travel impossible or at least very, very difficult. There’s no inherent law of physics that says “one cannot meet thy self in the past,” because there’s no way to make it so we currently _could_ send something back into the past. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2009, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-two-spocks/519110/12 "2009-11-27T18:38:42Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > I don’t recall the episode title but Spock went back to give some advice to his younger self in TOS. > [@DrFidelius](#): > > Not in TOS, but ther was an episode of the animated series where Spock had to go back to a time in his earlier life to keep himself from being killed at a young age. > > We got to see his pet sehlat. And Spock did not reveal himself as being from the future. He introduced himself as a distant cousin, “Selek”. > [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > I remember Kirk asking Spock if Spock remembers his childhood and being visited by someone who resembles him in the present. You were indeed thinking of the TAS episode “Yesteryear,” which was written by Dorothy Fontana, one of the original series’ writers. [Memory Alpha](http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Yesteryear) > [@](#): > > Spock then recalls the date of the event in question, the 20th day of Tasmeen, noting that it was the day that his cousin Selek saved his life in the desert when he was attacked by a wild animal. Although Spock cannot remember the finer details of the event, he recalls that that was also the only time he had ever met Selek. > \*\* > On a hunch, Kirk asks if perhaps this cousin might have looked like Spock looks now, only for Spock to confirm what Kirk was thinking:\*\* Spock saved his own life in the original timeline, but was unable to do it a second time because he was in Orion’s past when the time vortex replayed Vulcan history, making it impossible for him to be in two places at one time. With the realization of what transpired, Kirk asks the Guardian if there is any way they can reverse what happened. The Guardian confirms that there is, but only as long as no other important factor is changed. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2009, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-two-spocks/519110/13 "2009-11-27T18:59:42Z")
Thanks. I bet my brother the Trekkie was watching that and I wasn’t really paying attention. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2009, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-two-spocks/519110/14 "2009-11-27T19:39:57Z")
> [@DirkGntly](#): > > Not true. But we’re not allowed to talk about it while we’re here… > > 😃 **You are in violation of…** … um, never mind. :o ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2009, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-two-spocks/519110/15 "2009-11-27T23:54:32Z")
Heck, if you want to see time-travel with no rules at all, check out _The Man Who Folded Himself_. ---
**Author:** ![Taomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Taomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taomist)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-two-spocks/519110/16 "2009-11-28T02:39:02Z")
I never thought of it as a scientific rule, cause it wouldn’t make sense. It’s not as if they’re actually occupying the EXACT same place and time; even as a kid, it sounded like a plot device, or more optimistically, a social science fiction, a moral guideline. Scientifically, it has never made sense to me even a little. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-two-spocks/519110/17 "2009-11-28T04:40:29Z")
> [@DirkGntly](#): > > Not true. But we’re not allowed to talk about it while we’re here… > > 😃 [ul] [li]Rule 1 of time travel: Do not talk about time travel[/li] [li]Rule 2 of time travel: Do not talk about time travel[/li] [li]Rule 3 of time travel: Do not attempt to assassinate Hitler[/li] [li]Rule 4 of time travel: After your first attempt to assassinate Hilter is reverted by another time travel agent, do not attempt to use other means to remove Hitler from the time line[/li] [li]Rule 5 of time travel: After you’ve stopped attempting to use other means to remove Hitler from the time line only to have your attempts reverted by other agents, do not attempt to save JFK[/li] [li]For rules 6 through double infinity +1, please consult your guidebook[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-two-spocks/519110/18 "2009-11-28T04:53:34Z")
This is exactly why I like this subject: so many differing opinions, theories and hypotheses. Who was it that said, “To conceive of a purple cow, is essentially to have met one”? The point being that our technology is advancing faster than ever, and who’s to say that someone, _sometime_ won’t make time travel happen? Just hope I’ll still be here when it does, because I’ll be the first in line as a passenger. Thanks Q ---
**Author:** ![Annie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/858c86/32.png) [@Annie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-two-spocks/519110/19 "2009-11-28T05:15:07Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > [ul] > [li]Rule 1 -6, etc: (ed.) Hitler, Hitler, Hitler[/li][/ul] Rule 7- Killing Hitler only results in Worse Hitler ---
**Author:** ![panamajack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/47e85d/32.png) [@panamajack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panamajack)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-two-spocks/519110/20 "2009-11-28T06:14:12Z")
You should watch _Primer_. It explains this all perfectly. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-the-two-spocks/519110.md?page=2)