# Star Trek: TNG has aged badly (IMHO)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tng-has-aged-badly-imho/169530
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [April 18, 2003, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tng-has-aged-badly-imho/169530 "2003-04-18T12:24:02Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@mogiaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mogiaw)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2003, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tng-has-aged-badly-imho/169530/1 "2003-04-18T12:24:02Z")
I just saw The Next Generation on Sky the other day for the first time in years.I was shocked cos It looks terrible. The sets look too beige, the acting is dodgy and the storylines seem so much worse than they did when i first watched it. It seems to have dated far worse than the original Star Trek. Ugh I must be getting old.
mog
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### Author:  [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2003, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tng-has-aged-badly-imho/169530/2 "2003-04-18T12:33:29Z")
Perhaps one doesn’t expect it to be “old” because they are still making movies.
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### Author:  [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2003, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tng-has-aged-badly-imho/169530/3 "2003-04-18T12:41:38Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by mogiaw \*
> \*\*I just saw The Next Generation on Sky the other day for the first time in years.I was shocked cos It looks terrible. The sets look too beige, the acting is dodgy and the storylines seem so much worse than they did when i first watched it. It seems to have dated far worse than the original Star Trek. Ugh I must be getting old.
>
> \*\*
I think it has aged poorly as well though it still beats Voyager. I’d put the best TOS episodes against the best TNG episodes any day. TNG was a bit to self-rightous at times for my taste.
Marc
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### Author:  [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2003, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tng-has-aged-badly-imho/169530/4 "2003-04-18T12:47:12Z")
Ah, but again, when Janeway says “Break out the compression phaser rifles”, I get all tingly.
🙂
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### Author:  [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2003, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tng-has-aged-badly-imho/169530/5 "2003-04-18T12:47:20Z")
Amen on the over use of biege, I saw some episodes again after my pal got season 1 and 2 on dvd and almost every set looked like my doctor’s waiting room. bleh.
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### Author:  [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2003, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tng-has-aged-badly-imho/169530/6 "2003-04-18T12:56:49Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by MGibson \*
> \*\*I think it has aged poorly as well though it still beats Voyager. I’d put the best TOS episodes against the best TNG episodes any day. TNG was a bit to self-rightous at times for my taste.
>
> Marc \*\*
“The Inner Light” versus “The Trouble with Tribbles”? No question: TNG wins!
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### Author:  [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2003, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tng-has-aged-badly-imho/169530/7 "2003-04-18T12:58:16Z")
Beige? I hated _Shades of Grey_.
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### Author:  [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2003, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tng-has-aged-badly-imho/169530/8 "2003-04-18T13:03:00Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Turek \*
> \*\*“The Inner Light” versus “The Trouble with Tribbles”? No question: TNG wins! \*\*
Not fair. You compare Citizen Kane to Cocanuts.
Say, Inner Light compared to The City on the Edge of Forever, or
Best of Both Worlds to Amok Time.
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### Author:  [@Sock\_Munkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sock_Munkey)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2003, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tng-has-aged-badly-imho/169530/9 "2003-04-18T13:18:38Z")
Oh really? How about “City On The Edge Of Forever” versus “The Naked Now”?
TOS forever!
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### Author:  [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2003, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tng-has-aged-badly-imho/169530/10 "2003-04-18T13:20:37Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Turek \*
> \*\*“The Inner Light” versus “The Trouble with Tribbles”? No question: TNG wins! \*\*
I’ve seen every episode of TOS and TNG but I don’t know the names of most of the episodes. I know more of the TOS epsidoes simply because I’ve been watching them since I was 5 or 6. One thing I’ve noticed is that the episodes that were good 30 years ago are still good and those that were bad are still bad.
I really hated Roddenberry’s heavy handed new age philosophy presented in TNG. “Starfleet is not a military organization” my ass! (Though again Voyager was a lot worse in the new age touchy feely department.) I always found it odd that the most alien creatures on TNG were the humans.
Marc
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### Author:  [@NoCoolUserName](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoCoolUserName)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2003, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tng-has-aged-badly-imho/169530/11 "2003-04-18T13:32:19Z")
But City on the Edge of Forever is the only really good TOS ep. TNG has Inner Light, Best of Both Worlds, Measure of a Man…
They both have a large portion of turkeys as well. There’s probably already a thread for worst eps.
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### Author:  [@Mars\_Horizon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mars_Horizon)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2003, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tng-has-aged-badly-imho/169530/12 "2003-04-18T13:40:24Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Sock Munkey \*
> \*\*Oh really? How about “City On The Edge Of Forever” versus “The Naked Now”?
> TOS forever! \*\*
Unfair comparison.
“City On The Edge Of Forever” won industry awards, and may be the best written ST episode, bar none.
YMMV.
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### Author:  [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2003, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tng-has-aged-badly-imho/169530/13 "2003-04-18T13:58:33Z")
[The City On The Edge Of Forever](http://www.thelogbook.com/read/q4-01/city.htm)
Interesting backstory
[sub]
> [@](#):
>
> This volume reprints the original draft, and several subsequent revisions, of Harlan Ellison’s multiple-award-winning, career-defining, critically acclaimed, and seemingly life-ruining Star Trek script, The City on the Edge of Forever. A lengthy essay opens the book with the full background of the episode’s birth from Harlan’s own inimitable point of view. Numerous people have taken credit for City’s success over the years, and just as many have been more than happy to lay the blame for any perceived faults in the story at Harlan’s feet. In this book, Harlan lashes out at all of them. Every last one of them. In a way, maybe “lashes out” is too gentle - he positively breathes fire at many of his former colleagues.
>
> Chief among Harlan’s rogues’ gallery of people who defaced his work is the late Gene Roddenberry, and no secret is made of this fact. Gene was instrumental in the mythologizing of the supposed troubles with Harlan’s script, after all, and all things being fair, Harlan takes more than his allotted shot back at Star Trek’s creator, also taking shots at virtually everyone else involved in the show. It is nice to see him firing off a salvo in William Shatner’s direction, though - I never quite fell for Shatner’s self-important declarations that he had personally saved Star Trek umpteen gazillion times, and Harlan’s response to the erstwhile skipper’s biographical blitherings is a moment of pure glee.
[/sub]
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### Author:  [@cankerist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cankerist)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2003, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tng-has-aged-badly-imho/169530/14 "2003-04-18T14:35:09Z")
> [@](#):
>
> It is nice to see him firing off a salvo in William Shatner’s direction, though - I never quite fell for Shatner’s self-important declarations that he had personally saved Star Trek umpteen gazillion times, and Harlan’s response to the erstwhile skipper’s biographical blitherings is a moment of pure glee.
“Don’t take shots at me…It sickens me.”
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### Author:  [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2003, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tng-has-aged-badly-imho/169530/15 "2003-04-18T15:04:23Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by mogiaw \*
> I just saw The Next Generation on Sky the other day
What, the whole thing? Come on. Which episodes did you see? Some of them sucked to begin with.
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### Author:  [@mogiaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mogiaw)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2003, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tng-has-aged-badly-imho/169530/16 "2003-04-18T15:29:46Z")
Well i didn’t watch _every_ episode of TNG but the Moriarty Holodeck one was on and several others that I had seen and enjoyed before but now they look so terrible. As someone else mentioned the New-ageyness of the dialogue is terrible. Also the educating Data motif seems really, really corny now. I’m sure if I saw some of the episodes that people have been citing as the best again I’d probably have a slightly different opinion but in general it seems much inferior to when i watched it years ago.
mog
BTW what was “The Inner Light” about?
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### Author:  [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2003, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tng-has-aged-badly-imho/169530/17 "2003-04-18T15:30:45Z")
I think teh first couple seasons REALLY didn’t age well–but the later ones (after Riker grew his beard, as a general benchmark) hold up just fine.
But still, one quick glance at the movie “Generations” reminds you how amazing it all can look if you spend the time/money on the proper lighting. (I could watch that damn scene in his ready room, when the star goes nova, about a million times…)
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### Author:  [@NoCoolUserName](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoCoolUserName)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2003, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tng-has-aged-badly-imho/169530/18 "2003-04-18T15:31:35Z")
I didn’t mean to sidetrack this into a discussion of good/bad episodes. To reply to the OPs contention that TNG has not aged well:
1. I’m not sure what “the acting is dodgy” really means. Patrick Stewart, Bret Spiner (how do you pronounce Spiner, anyway?) and Michael Dorn are top-notch actors. The rest: not as good.
2. Beige? You’re complaining about the color of the sets/lighting? Sheesh, talk about nit-picking!
3. Story lines are uneven, to say the least. Some were quite good, IMHO of course, and many sucked. There’s only so much you can do when you have to have a new script every darn week. As I said before, I think that TNG had more good scripts than TOS.
How a show looks is such a flavour-of-the-moment sort of thing that sometimes it goes out of style and comes back in. Whatever you nominate as the best looking show right now, I guarantee that it will look dorky in 15 or 20 years. Then it might be cool again in another 15 or 20.
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### Author:  [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2003, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tng-has-aged-badly-imho/169530/19 "2003-04-18T15:40:28Z")
To rhyme with _interior designer_.
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### Author:  [@Daniel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daniel)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2003, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tng-has-aged-badly-imho/169530/20 "2003-04-18T16:16:37Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by toadspittle \*
> \*\*But still, one quick glance at the movie “Generations” reminds you how amazing it all can look if you spend the time/money on the proper lighting. \*\*
I wasn’t aware that movie even _had_ lighting. The Enterprise was so conspicuously dark in Generations, it was genuinely annoying. I couldn’t see a damn thing!
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