# "Star Trek TNG" nitpick: How could the Ferengi not have scientists? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 12, 2005, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tng-nitpick-how-could-the-ferengi-not-have-scientists/325860 "2005-10-12T05:58:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tng-nitpick-how-could-the-ferengi-not-have-scientists/325860/41 "2005-10-13T05:29:01Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > What I found more disturbing was an episode of DS9 where Jake had been quietly tutoring Nog in basic literacy. A space-faring race that doesn’t promote _basic literacy?!_ Aside from being an incredibly **un** Jewish trait, it don’t make a lick o’ sense! I assumed this was more just portraying Rom as a lousy parent. (He gets less loutish as the series develops.) Interestingly enough, the episode noted in the OP, with the Ferengi physicist, also featured…a [Klingon scientist!](http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/library/character/bio/1117195.html) And according to Wikipedia, the Ferengi _purchased_ warp-drive technology from the Breen. Memory Alpha confirms this, but doesn’t list which episode this was established in, or say it was the Breen. Still, something like that might show how the Ferengi could get along without a _lot_ of scientists. ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tng-nitpick-how-could-the-ferengi-not-have-scientists/325860/42 "2005-10-13T05:34:03Z")
> [@chrisk](#): > > Well, you’d imagine there would be one in the Klingon restaurant, but I’m not sure I remember ever seeing him. I believe the chef is shown in the episode in which Bashir is dating a handicapped Star Fleet officer (don’t remember the main plot). ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tng-nitpick-how-could-the-ferengi-not-have-scientists/325860/43 "2005-10-13T05:47:29Z")
> [@Larry Borgia](#): > > So how come their lips move in English? Because the Universal Translator translates lips too ! ---
**Author:** ![uglybeech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/82dd89/32.png) [@uglybeech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/uglybeech)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tng-nitpick-how-could-the-ferengi-not-have-scientists/325860/44 "2005-10-13T05:55:41Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > What I’d like to know is what was up with that one species of really, really, REALLY _stoopid_ aliens who once kidnapped LaForge (_“ooh, you’re SMART!”_). Let’s just call them the Retardi. I think the Retardi episode adequately explains the Ferengi paradox. If a race of developmentally delayed aliens can achieve space travel through theft, I have no problem with the Ferengi acquiring it through trade. Why couldn’t they just have traded with some other planet for it? Actually, if you consider that the heavy lifting of technological advance is done less by invention itself and more by by the spread of invention through trade, I’d think a race of trade-obsessives would advance at least as fast as a race of pure scientists. Assuming they were sharp enough to manage the occasional innovation - and clearly the Ferengi are sharp. _Cunning_, one might say. My BIG BIG problem is with the Vulcans. How can a race of pure logicians ever be motivated to do anything? You have to value something in order to find it worth doing. You have to value your life, your species, progress, _something_. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tng-nitpick-how-could-the-ferengi-not-have-scientists/325860/45 "2005-10-13T06:14:09Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > And according to Wikipedia, the Ferengi _purchased_ warp-drive technology from the Breen. Memory Alpha confirms this, but doesn’t list which episode this was established in, or say it was the Breen. Still, something like that might show how the Ferengi could get along without a _lot_ of scientists. The Roswell episode of DS9, _Little Green Men_ established that they purchased it but I don’t recall it being from the Breen which seems unlikely considering their reputation. > [@Larry Borgia](#): > > So how come their lips move in English? This nitpick is really old and really stupid. It’s a convention of alien related science-fiction television that you’re just going to have to deal with, just like artificial gravity, FTL drive, and dozens of other improbable concepts. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tng-nitpick-how-could-the-ferengi-not-have-scientists/325860/46 "2005-10-13T08:22:19Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > Let’s face it: Star Trek aliens are one-dimensional caricatures. It’s worse than that, they are (as far as I can tell) all just one dimensional caricatures of _conspicuously human traits_ - none of them seem particularly _alien_ in their thinking or culture; they just behave like obsessed humans. ---
**Author:** ![Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bambi_Hassenpfeffer)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tng-nitpick-how-could-the-ferengi-not-have-scientists/325860/47 "2005-10-13T08:41:03Z")
> [@cckerberos](#): > > I believe the chef is shown in the episode in which Bashir is dating a handicapped Star Fleet officer (don’t remember the main plot). _Melora_. And that _is_ the main plot, more or less. ---
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tng-nitpick-how-could-the-ferengi-not-have-scientists/325860/48 "2005-10-13T09:42:57Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > This nitpick is really old and really stupid. It’s a convention of alien related science-fiction television that you’re just going to have to deal with, just like artificial gravity, FTL drive, and dozens of other improbable concepts. Just cause it’s old doesn’t mean it’s not stupid. Just because a show hasn’t dealt with aliens who don’t speak English doesn’t mean they shouldn’t. If they had made the aliens on Star Trek basically look like they’d been dubbed into English when they were on screen and have the ones who commonly dealt with the Federation speak English without a translator it’d sit better. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tng-nitpick-how-could-the-ferengi-not-have-scientists/325860/49 "2005-10-13T11:51:28Z")
> [@Silentgoldfish](#): > > If they had made the aliens on Star Trek basically look like they’d been dubbed into English when they were on screen and have the ones who commonly dealt with the Federation speak English without a translator it’d sit better. I’d love to see an episode with “realistic” lip movements. I imagine that it would look like a badly-dubbed Godzilla movie. Filming the scene would be a hoot; all the actors would be speaking lines from Harry Potter books, or verses from the Bible, or some other stuff that has nothing whatsoever to do with the plot of the story. Then they’d all go into a recording studio and speak the lines that the audience will hear, which would replace the lines that they spoke on the set. ---
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tng-nitpick-how-could-the-ferengi-not-have-scientists/325860/50 "2005-10-13T12:00:15Z")
Honestly, like Firefly’s lack of sound in space, I think it’s a minor thing that if done right could add a whole new layer to a show. They never really had to deal with stuff as simple as not being able to understand alien races on Star Trek, and for a show that was nominally about going places no one had gone before it sure made the universe seem small and homey. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tng-nitpick-how-could-the-ferengi-not-have-scientists/325860/51 "2005-10-13T12:49:56Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > I’d love to see an episode with “realistic” lip movements. I imagine that it would look like a badly-dubbed Godzilla movie. Filming the scene would be a hoot; all the actors would be speaking lines from Harry Potter books, or verses from the Bible, or some other stuff that has nothing whatsoever to do with the plot of the story. Then they’d all go into a recording studio and speak the lines that the audience will hear, which would replace the lines that they spoke on the set. Except that you should still be able to hear the original alien language as well. [fanwank]Except that the UT uses noise-cancelling technology to eliminate the spoken sounds, replacing them with English; while we’re here, why don’t we just say that, I dunno, it also uses a form of holography to superimpose the image of english-speaking lips on the face of the alien? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tng-nitpick-how-could-the-ferengi-not-have-scientists/325860/52 "2005-10-13T12:59:44Z")
> [@Silentgoldfish](#): > > They never really had to deal with stuff as simple as not being able to understand alien races on Star Trek There was a DS9 episode where the translator doesn’t work with some folks who think it is their manifest destiny to live on Bajor. STNG had a deaf diplomat and an episode where the aliens communicated by metaphor which the universal translator could not deal with. ---
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tng-nitpick-how-could-the-ferengi-not-have-scientists/325860/53 "2005-10-13T13:28:41Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > There was a DS9 episode where the translator doesn’t work with some folks who think it is their manifest destiny to live on Bajor. > STNG had a deaf diplomat and an episode where the aliens communicated by metaphor which the universal translator could not deal with. Yeah but those eps are few and far between. I’m thinking that if the Enterprise is really seeking out new life then communicating with a new kind of alien would be a common occurance. Voyager lost me from day one with all the new aliens it was meeting on the other side of the galaxy speaking perfect English from second one. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tng-nitpick-how-could-the-ferengi-not-have-scientists/325860/54 "2005-10-13T14:29:07Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > There’s also the fact that the Klingon Empire, a gigantic confederation of dozens of star systems with billions of citizens, is capitalled in a building whose main chamber is no larger than a meeting room in your local Holida Inn, and run by a small group of infighting twits who more closely resemble a bickering Shriners chapter than the government of a great state. > > How the Klingons could possibly run a huge star empire is inexplicable. Have you ever seen the House of Commons? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tng-nitpick-how-could-the-ferengi-not-have-scientists/325860/55 "2005-10-13T14:41:51Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > There’s also the fact that the Klingon Empire, a gigantic confederation of dozens of star systems with billions of citizens, is capitalled in a building whose main chamber is no larger than a meeting room in your local Holida Inn, and run by a small group of infighting twits who more closely resemble a bickering Shriners chapter than the government of a great state. Yeah, I think you’ve hit on the only true element of realism in the show so far. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tng-nitpick-how-could-the-ferengi-not-have-scientists/325860/56 "2005-10-13T14:56:53Z")
> [@Larry Borgia](#): > > Look, I don’t think the Star Trek writers are racists. In fact they lean absurdly far in the opposite direction–to being painfully politically correct. I just thought the “Yankee Trader” was funny. It was like they had a staff meeting and someone said “Big No-uh, Ears? Lechers? Obssesed with money? This is an awful lot like a Jewish stereotype!” > > “I know, we’ll have Data compare them to Yankee Traders!” > > “Yankee Traders? What the hell is that? George Steinbrenner?” > > “Never mind. It’ll let everyone know we’re not stereotyping Jews.” They had to use “Yankee Traders” because the Iranian-American anti-defamation activists won’t let anyone use “Persian Rug Merchant” anymore. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tng-nitpick-how-could-the-ferengi-not-have-scientists/325860/57 "2005-10-13T15:03:23Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > They had to use “Yankee Traders” because the Iranian-American anti-defamation activists won’t let anyone use “Persian Rug Merchant” anymore. 😃 Especially since by the Next Generation toupees have clearly gone out of style. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tng-nitpick-how-could-the-ferengi-not-have-scientists/325860/58 "2005-10-13T15:11:53Z")
> [@cckerberos](#): > > I believe the chef is shown in the episode in which Bashir is dating a handicapped Star Fleet officer (don’t remember the main plot). She was from an ultra-low gravity environment; and due to the fact that they had trouble getting Federation anti-grav equipment to work in the Cardassian-built DS9, she was effectively handicapped while aboard the station. The plot revolved around that she didn’t consider herself handicapped, she considered the gravity on station abnormally high, and she resented being pitied or considered “crippled”. Oh, and there was an episode that had one of the scariest things I’ve ever seen: a Klingon **lawyer**. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tng-nitpick-how-could-the-ferengi-not-have-scientists/325860/59 "2005-10-13T16:00:37Z")
> [@Silentgoldfish](#): > > Yeah but those eps are few and far between. And “never” is a long time. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tng-nitpick-how-could-the-ferengi-not-have-scientists/325860/60 "2005-10-13T17:32:34Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Oh, and there was an episode that had one of the scariest things I’ve ever seen: a Klingon **lawyer**. Yeah, it was Worf’s grandfather that defended Kirk & McCoy at their trial. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tng-nitpick-how-could-the-ferengi-not-have-scientists/325860.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tng-nitpick-how-could-the-ferengi-not-have-scientists/325860.md?page=4)