# Star Trek: TOS Question (open spoilers)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-question-open-spoilers/614220
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [February 28, 2012, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-question-open-spoilers/614220 "2012-02-28T03:32:07Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2012, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-question-open-spoilers/614220/1 "2012-02-28T03:32:07Z")
In the episode _Journey to Babel_, Kirk and Spock have and encounter with Spock’s parents, Sarek and the Earthling woman Amanda Grayson.
How is this possible when Amanda Grayson died when the Romulan Captain Nero destroyed the planet Vulcan (by creating a singularity in the planet’s core), back before Spock and Kirk even liked each other?
Did Roddenberry ever propose a retcon to explain this?
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### Author:  [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2012, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-question-open-spoilers/614220/2 "2012-02-28T03:36:14Z")
Well, given the fact that Gene Roddenberry was dead before the movie you refer to came out, I’m going to guess not. 🙂
Maybe Sarek and Amanda weren’t on Vulcan when it was destroyed? I only saw the movie once and I can’t remember if they specifically said Sarek died, but if they didn’t it’s entirely possible that he and his wife were offworld on a diplomatic mission when the planet was destroyed.
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### Author:  [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2012, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-question-open-spoilers/614220/3 "2012-02-28T03:43:55Z")
> [@Infovore](#):
>
> Maybe Sarek and Amanda weren’t on Vulcan when it was destroyed? I only saw the movie once and I can’t remember if they specifically said Sarek died, but if they didn’t it’s entirely possible that he and his wife were offworld on a diplomatic mission when the planet was destroyed.
Sarek lived, Amanda died, when Chekov lost her signal trying to transport the group of them up - it took them a while to find them, so it was more complicated than it should have been to beam them up…he managed to keep Spock and Sarek’s signals, but Amanda’s was lost.
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### Author:  [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2012, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-question-open-spoilers/614220/4 "2012-02-28T03:52:03Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#):
>
> In the episode _Journey to Babel_, Kirk and Spock have and encounter with Spock’s parents, Sarek and the Earthling woman Amanda Grayson.
>
> How is this possible when Amanda Grayson died when the Romulan Captain Nero destroyed the planet Vulcan (by creating a singularity in the planet’s core), back before Spock and Kirk even liked each other?
>
> Did Roddenberry ever propose a retcon to explain this?
The recent film is explicitly a reboot, it is not related to the original show. From the time Nero’s ship obliterates the ship Kirk’s father is serving on its a totally new timeline. Notice also Spock and Uhura are a couple in the movie, they have no such history on the show.
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2012, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-question-open-spoilers/614220/5 "2012-02-28T06:34:00Z")
I don’t object at all to a reboot and a major shake-up, I just wish it had been a better movie.
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### Author:  [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2012, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-question-open-spoilers/614220/6 "2012-02-28T07:51:37Z")
As others have noted, the 2009 Star Trek movie occurred in a different timeline from TOS. Amanda appeared several times in original Star Trek canon. First in “Journey to Babel,” played by Jane Wyatt. She next appeared in the animated episode “Yesteryear,” although she was voiced by Majel Barrett, not by Jane Wyatt. She appeared in “ST IV: The Voyage Home,” once again played by Jane Wyatt. And a younger Amanda appeared in a flashback scene in “ST V: The Final Frontier,” played by Cynthia Blaise.
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### Author:  [@Sister\_Vigilante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sister_Vigilante)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2012, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-question-open-spoilers/614220/7 "2012-02-28T16:02:10Z")
When they went through the black hole they changed history. So Amanda died, Kirk’s dad George also died, etc. when originally they had lived. This is an alternate reality. I thought the reboot (red matter aside) was fantastic.
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### Author:  [@howye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/howye)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2012, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-question-open-spoilers/614220/8 "2012-02-28T16:30:39Z")
The reboot had an excellent cast, wonderful characterizations, and a story that blew donkeys. If you can take a moment and not focus on the logical inconsistencies within the story itself (granting the entire new alternate timeline premise, which I got no problem with), the characters are wonderfully acted. Compare Chris Pine’s performance with the Shat’s in the original series, and it is totally believable that they are the same “Kirk”. The cocky confidence, but hints that he is just making this up as he goes. Everybody else in the core cast does the same thing.
But wow, the story is just awful. Plus everybody in the Federation must walk around with a headache because the lights are in their eyes all the damm time.
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### Author:  [@Christopher\_Robin\_Davies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Christopher_Robin_Davies)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2012, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-question-open-spoilers/614220/9 "2012-02-28T16:36:38Z")
> [@grude](#):
>
> The recent film is explicitly a reboot, it is not related to the original show. From the time Nero’s ship obliterates the ship Kirk’s father is serving on its a totally new timeline. Notice also Spock and Uhura are a couple in the movie, they have no such history on the show.
I can think of at least two scenes in the original scenes that hint at Uhura having a thing for Spock. She was just more sensible about it than Christine Chapel.
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### Author:  [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2012, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-question-open-spoilers/614220/10 "2012-02-28T18:20:43Z")
> [@Christopher\_Robin\_Davies](#):
>
> I can think of at least two scenes in the original scenes that hint at Uhura having a thing for Spock. She was just more sensible about it than Christine Chapel.
_The attraction between the characters was in the original series, says Nichols. “Now, go back to my participation in Star Trek as Uhura and Leonard as Spock,” she explained. “There was always a connection between Uhura and Spock. It was the early 60′s, so you couldn’t do what you can do now, but if you will remember, Uhura related to Spock. When she saw the captain lost in space out there in her mirror, it was Spock who consoled her when she went screaming out of her room. When Spock needed an expert to help save the ship, you remember that Uhura put something together and related back to him the famous words, ‘I don’t know if I can do this. I’m afraid.’ And Uhura was the only one who could do a spoof on Spock. Remember the song (in Charlie X)? Those were the hints, as far as I’m concerned.”
[http://www.trektoday.com/content/2010/10/nichols-on-spock-uhura/](http://www.trektoday.com/content/2010/10/nichols-on-spock-uhura/)_
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### Author:  [@Sister\_Vigilante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sister_Vigilante)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2012, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-question-open-spoilers/614220/11 "2012-02-28T18:30:46Z")
Plus there’s a rather funny out-take where Spock orders her to do something and she gives him a side glance and says, “If you say so, Mr. Spock, sugar.”
He maintains character and simply raises an eyebrow.
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### Author:  [@Christopher\_Robin\_Davies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Christopher_Robin_Davies)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2012, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-question-open-spoilers/614220/12 "2012-02-28T18:45:10Z")
> [@standingwave](#):
>
> _The attraction between the characters was in the original series, says Nichols. “Now, go back to my participation in Star Trek as Uhura and Leonard as Spock,” she explained. “There was always a connection between Uhura and Spock. It was the early 60′s, so you couldn’t do what you can do now, but if you will remember, Uhura related to Spock. When she saw the captain lost in space out there in her mirror, it was Spock who consoled her when she went screaming out of her room. When Spock needed an expert to help save the ship, you remember that Uhura put something together and related back to him the famous words, ‘I don’t know if I can do this. I’m afraid.’ And Uhura was the only one who could do a spoof on Spock. Remember the song (in Charlie X)? Those were the hints, as far as I’m concerned.”
> [http://www.trektoday.com/content/2010/10/nichols-on-spock-uhura/](http://www.trektoday.com/content/2010/10/nichols-on-spock-uhura/)_
I was thinking of the song in Charlie X, and also a scene when Spock is in command while Kirk is in a landing party and she is teasing him about romance, then gets angry at him for not reacting emotionally when they get news of a casualty in the landing party. I remember the scene when Spock tells Uhura that she is the only person on board who can do what needs to be done to the communications system but I don’t think it were about romance really but rather professional respect. But certainly Spock would have been more receptive to an overture from Uhura than from Chapel because Uhura didn’t push him as overtly.
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### Author:  [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2012, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-question-open-spoilers/614220/13 "2012-02-28T20:12:54Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#):
>
> In the episode _Journey to Babel_, Kirk and Spock have and encounter with Spock’s parents, Sarek and the Earthling woman Amanda Grayson.
>
> How is this possible when Amanda Grayson died when the Romulan Captain Nero destroyed the planet Vulcan (by creating a singularity in the planet’s core), back before Spock and Kirk even liked each other?
>
> Did Roddenberry ever propose a retcon to explain this?
Hey, I want to know where Spock, Kirk and McCoy were standing in “Amok Time.” It looked like Vulcan, not empty space to me.
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### Author:  [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2012, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-question-open-spoilers/614220/14 "2012-02-28T20:38:25Z")
Well, evidently, “Amok Time” can still happen (presuming that T’Pring and Stonn survived), because Spock supposedly located a replacement planet on which to respawn the Vulcan species.
P.S. I hate reboots. Requesting a move to the Pit, so I may adequately vent my spleen at the people who green-lighted this one and the people who are okay with it.
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### Author:  [@Christopher\_Robin\_Davies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Christopher_Robin_Davies)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2012, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-question-open-spoilers/614220/15 "2012-02-28T21:02:22Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#):
>
> Well, evidently, “Amok Time” can still happen (presuming that T’Pring and Stonn survived), because Spock supposedly located a replacement planet on which to respawn the Vulcan species.
>
> P.S. I hate reboots. Requesting a move to the Pit, so I may adequately vent my spleen at the people who green-lighted this one and the people who are okay with it.
Don’t see any reason for Amok time to happen any more. Spock has a girlfriend now.
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### Author:  [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2012, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-question-open-spoilers/614220/16 "2012-02-28T21:16:29Z")
> [@Christopher\_Robin\_Davies](#):
>
> Don’t see any reason for Amok time to happen any more. Spock has a girlfriend now.
Oh, it can still happen. Only in the 'booted version, it’s T’Pring and Uhura who engage in kal-if-fee.
In jello.
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### Author:  [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2012, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-question-open-spoilers/614220/17 "2012-02-28T21:29:02Z")
> [@standingwave](#):
>
> Oh, it can still happen. Only in the 'booted version, it’s T’Pring and Uhura who engage in kal-if-fee.
>
> In jello.
… I’ll be in my bunk.
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### Author:  [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2012, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-question-open-spoilers/614220/18 "2012-02-28T22:27:07Z")
Here’s a related question that came up because I just rewatched the new Star Trek for the first time since it came out. It didn’t seem worth starting a new thread so I will ask here:
New Spock says after Vulcan is destroyed there are only approximately 10,000 Vulcans left. How can that be possible? Don’t they have colonies? What about expatriates living on other worlds? I would guess there were more than 10,000 Vulcans working off world in Star Fleet alone. Did he mean just 10,000 survivors? Because that I could see given the suddenness of the attack.
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### Author:  [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2012, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-question-open-spoilers/614220/19 "2012-02-28T22:39:48Z")
> [@Quimby](#):
>
> New Spock says after Vulcan is destroyed there are only approximately 10,000 Vulcans left. How can that be possible? Don’t they have colonies? What about expatriates living on other worlds? I would guess there were more than 10,000 Vulcans working off world in Star Fleet alone. Did he mean just 10,000 survivors? Because that I could see given the suddenness of the attack.
For whatever reason, part of the Star Trek mythology is that the planet Vulcan had a pretty small population. There really were only 10000 Vulcans off-planet.
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### Author:  [@Celidin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celidin)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2012, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-question-open-spoilers/614220/20 "2012-02-28T22:47:03Z")
> [@bup](#):
>
> For whatever reason, part of the Star Trek mythology is that the planet Vulcan had a pretty small population. There really were only 10000 Vulcans off-planet.
I also believe (can’t find the reference now) that it’s said at one point\* that a fewer percentage of Vulcans go off-world than other races, so most of them were on Vulcan when it went boom.
- in the original timeline - no telling if this is still true in the Alt timeline.
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