# Star Trek: TOS Question (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 28, 2012, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-question-open-spoilers/614220 "2012-02-28T03:32:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2012, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-question-open-spoilers/614220/21 "2012-02-28T22:50:33Z")
Also, the movie gives the impression that serving in Starfleet is very unusual for Vulcans. Probably only a handful of exchange officers and the like, given that they have their own fleet (which may or may not be very large, especially after the whole “giant future space ship imploding their homeworld” incident that involved the wholesale destruction of a Starfleet task force in the time it took Mr. Sulu to find the parking brake release.) As it is, did we ever see very many Vulcans in Starfleet on the show proper? I remember Spock, Saavik, Valeris, the vulcan in the transporter accident in TPM, Sisko’s old Captain, Tuvok, and one or two others. ---
**Author:** ![Find\_Friends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@Find\_Friends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Find_Friends)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2012, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-question-open-spoilers/614220/22 "2012-02-28T22:54:35Z")
> [@standingwave](#): > > Oh, it can still happen. Only in the 'booted version, it’s T’Pring and Uhura who engage in kal-if-fee. > > In jello. Hmm. Just offhand, I don’t think Uhura would say anything like _She’s beautiful, Mr. Spock_ in that scenario. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2012, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-question-open-spoilers/614220/23 "2012-02-28T23:31:31Z")
> [@grude](#): > > The recent film is explicitly a reboot, it is not related to the original show. It absolutely is a reboot, but it also absolutely IS still related to the original show. Spock Prime, played by Leonard Nimoy is the very same Spock as the one he played in TOS. Pine’s Kirk and Quinto’s Spock aren’t the same as Shatner’s and Nimoy’s but they’re still in the same “multiverse” just a different timeline created by Nero when he killed Kirk’s dad, Spock’s mom, blew up Vulcan etc. Man, Chief O’Brien was right about temporal mechanics. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-question-open-spoilers/614220/24 "2012-02-29T01:27:03Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > As it is, did we ever see very many Vulcans in Starfleet on the show proper? I remember Spock, Saavik, Valeris, the vulcan in the transporter accident in TPM, Sisko’s old Captain, Tuvok, and one or two others. We didn’t see them but one episode of TOS referred to a Star Fleet ship that had an all Vulcan crew. It was the one with the giant germ I believe. ---
**Author:** ![Sister\_Vigilante](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Sister\_Vigilante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sister_Vigilante)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-question-open-spoilers/614220/25 "2012-02-29T02:15:47Z")
The USS Intrepid. As I recall that ship had a lot of bad luck notwithstanding the Giant Space Amoeba. Spock sensed all 400 of their deaths. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-question-open-spoilers/614220/26 "2012-02-29T02:58:31Z")
To reiterate, the events of the 2009 movie take place in an alternate timeline. In the original canon, Kirk was born on Earth, his father survived to see him reach captain, and Vulcan circled its sun just like any other planet. Nero, reacting to (old) Spock’s failure to save Romulus, went back in time and created an offshoot timeline in which he blew up the ship on which Kirk’s parents were serving – killing Kirk Sr. – and then destroyed Vulcan. But the movie explicitly says this is an **alternate** timeline – the universe we know from the various Trek TV shows still exists and continues as it always did (Vulcan is intact; Romulus is not). But that’s some"where" else. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-question-open-spoilers/614220/27 "2012-02-29T04:41:17Z")
> [@Cliffy](#): > > In the original canon, Kirk was born on Earth, his father survived to see him reach captain Huh, I don’t recall any pre-2009 canon references to Kirk’s dad, just his brother and nephew (or nephews, nieces? - his brother had three kids) and son. ---
**Author:** ![tanstaafl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba8739/32.png) [@tanstaafl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanstaafl)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-question-open-spoilers/614220/28 "2012-02-29T13:10:48Z")
> [@Cliffy](#): > > To reiterate, the events of the 2009 movie take place in an alternate timeline. In the original canon, Kirk was born on Earth, his father survived to see him reach captain, and Vulcan circled its sun just like any other planet. Nero, reacting to (old) Spock’s failure to save Romulus, went back in time and created an offshoot timeline in which he blew up the ship on which Kirk’s parents were serving – killing Kirk Sr. – and then destroyed Vulcan. But the movie explicitly says this is an **alternate** timeline – the universe we know from the various Trek TV shows still exists and continues as it always did (Vulcan is intact; Romulus is not). But that’s some"where" else. > > –Cliffy I think the Star Trek Online MMO specifically takes place in the old Star Trek universe but is set after Spock went back in time. Romulus is destroyed and unrest grows in the Federation because various worlds start believing that if the Federation couldn’t or wouldn’t save Romulus then it won’t be able to help them either. ISTR that the intro is narrated by Nimoy and he explains it that way but I only played for a while and that was a couple of years ago. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-question-open-spoilers/614220/29 "2012-02-29T14:21:18Z")
An entire ship full of Vulcans turns up at the end of _Star Trek: First Contact_. That is a TNG story, of course, but it is meant to be in the same universe as TOS. The Vulcan ship turns up well before the era of TOS. The time-line has been damaged by the Borg, but TNG crew travel back in time and succeed in repairing it. They witness, but do not participate in, the first contact between humans and aliens, a ship full of Vulcans that arrives on Earth, apparently having been nearby and picked up the evidence of a warp drive being used. This suggests that Vulcans were, at least at one time, a regularly spacefaring species. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-question-open-spoilers/614220/30 "2012-02-29T15:00:17Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > An entire ship full of Vulcans turns up at the end of _Star Trek: First Contact_. That is a TNG story, of course, but it is meant to be in the same universe as TOS. > > The Vulcan ship turns up well before the era of TOS. The time-line has been damaged by the Borg, but TNG crew travel back in time and succeed in repairing it. They witness, but do not participate in, the first contact between humans and aliens, a ship full of Vulcans that arrives on Earth, apparently having been nearby and picked up the evidence of a warp drive being used. This suggests that Vulcans were, at least at one time, a regularly spacefaring species. Not just that but the show Enterprise established Vulcans as having a fairly extensive off planet presence, including colonies, that was only reigned in by their rivals the Andorians. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-question-open-spoilers/614220/31 "2012-02-29T22:06:11Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Huh, I don’t recall any pre-2009 canon references to Kirk’s dad, just his brother and nephew (or nephews, nieces? - his brother had three kids) and son. Well, that information came from Spock Prime, so assuming he was being truthful about that, it would be based on his experience in the main timeline. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2012, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-question-open-spoilers/614220/32 "2012-02-29T22:44:54Z")
Also, the original backstory to Spock included him getting involved in some romances back in the academy. For some reason, women always took a liking to him, possibly because he was the ultimate challenge. He went along with this sometimes, not realizing the trouble it would cause. It’s not that hard to take that and the chemistry shown between Uhura and Spock and surmise that she was one of those people who was smitten by him. Without Spock’s mother’s death, they never really connect, and Uhura convinces herself that Spock had no feelings and was just experimenting, and of course Spock convinces himself that those human feelings were just a mistake. Neither feels any resentment towards the other, and neither realizes how close they got to a real relationship. I guess it’s possible that Nero’s incursion caused them to meet earlier in the timeline, in the same way the rest of the Enterprise bridge crew met earlier, but I like to think that Uhura and Spock had at least some history due to how they treated one another. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-question-open-spoilers/614220/33 "2012-03-01T00:06:03Z")
> [@Christopher\_Robin\_Davies](#): > > I can think of at least two scenes in the original scenes that hint at Uhura having a thing for Spock. She was just more sensible about it than Christine Chapel. they did make beautiful music together. there was a thing about uhura singing, spock playing the harp in the “rec area”. ---
**Author:** ![Sister\_Vigilante](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Sister\_Vigilante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sister_Vigilante)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-question-open-spoilers/614220/34 "2012-03-01T17:01:23Z")
Ah, The Way to Eden. The Space Hippy episode. One of my least favorites. He actually “jams” with them if I recall correctly. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-question-open-spoilers/614220/35 "2012-03-01T17:11:00Z")
> [@Sister\_Vigilante](#): > > Ah, The Way to Eden. The Space Hippy episode. One of my least favorites. He actually “jams” with them if I recall correctly. Yeah, they totally session. I can play that ditty on the guitar. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-question-open-spoilers/614220/36 "2012-03-01T17:25:32Z")
My friend was on the makeup crew for the new movie. He made all the Vulcan ears, he was so proud. I didn’t have the heart to tell him that I thought the movie stunk. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-question-open-spoilers/614220/37 "2012-03-01T17:44:47Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > An entire ship full of Vulcans turns up at the end of _Star Trek: First Contact_. That is a TNG story, of course, but it is meant to be in the same universe as TOS. There is also an episode of TOS where they say that there is a starship manned entirely by Vulcans; when it is destroyed, Spock claims that he can “hear” the “screams of mental anguish” of the 400 Vulcans aboard. And going back to the original thread, there is a scene in the movie where “Spock prime” explains that when he traveled back in time, he created an alternate timeline; in my opinion, this was aimed at the Trekkies / Trekkers / (insert your preferred word for Trek-types here) to explain why some things (e.g. Vulcan is no longer there) are now different from the TV series and earlier movies (well, except for _Star Trek: Enterprise_, since Spock Prime’s appearance was after the events in that series). – Don ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-question-open-spoilers/614220/38 "2012-03-01T17:49:41Z")
> [@BMalion](#): > > My friend was on the makeup crew for the new movie. He made all the Vulcan ears, he was so proud. I didn’t have the heart to tell him that I thought the movie stunk. If you ever do mention it to him. be sure to assure him that the stinkiness was not due to the Vulcan ears, which were superb. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-question-open-spoilers/614220/39 "2012-03-01T18:12:17Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > And going back to the original thread, there is a scene in the movie where “Spock prime” explains that when he traveled back in time, he created an alternate timeline; in my opinion, this was aimed at the Trekkies / Trekkers / (insert your preferred word for Trek-types here) to explain why some things (e.g. Vulcan is no longer there) are now different from the TV series and earlier movies Also, it emphatically turns the whole thing from _“predictable prequel”_ into _“anything can happen,”_ right? If it’s _ **not** _ an alternate timeline, we’d already know that Sulu and Uhura and McCoy and the rest will spend the rest of the movie not dying, sure as we’d already know the Earth won’t get done blowed up real good by the Romulans; anyone and anything that’s still around in the series and the movies will still be just fine. Instead, it’s a movie where, say, Chekhov might get beheaded between now and the end credits; until you actually watch it through for the first time, you don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![FordTaurusSHO94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f07891/32.png) [@FordTaurusSHO94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordTaurusSHO94)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-question-open-spoilers/614220/40 "2012-03-01T18:38:35Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > There is also an episode of TOS where they say that there is a starship manned entirely by Vulcans; when it is destroyed, Spock claims that he can “hear” the “screams of mental anguish” of the 400 Vulcans aboard. There’s a DS9 where a crew of Vulcan’s, maybe a science vessel, is passing by DS9 and gives someone a lift to somewhere else. It’s been a couple of years though, so my details are fuzzy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-question-open-spoilers/614220.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-question-open-spoilers/614220.md?page=3)