# Star Trek (TOS, TNG, DS9, Voyager) is kind of racist (hear me out) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 2, 2015, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-tng-ds9-voyager-is-kind-of-racist-hear-me-out/733305 "2015-10-02T21:43:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2015, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-tng-ds9-voyager-is-kind-of-racist-hear-me-out/733305/21 "2015-10-02T23:26:42Z")
I am never going to understand why TV executives perpetually get the idea of a science fiction show where our characters are lost as all hell out in space somewhere and the entire premise of the show is about how to get home. The only time that ever really worked all that well was when we had Dr. Smith and a Robot to play off it. And the only people who really seemed to like it were kids when it was on. Sure, it got a movie, which sank like a rock. As opposed to this other show at the time which was about a spaceship full of people who knew exactly where they were, and could go home at any time. THAT show spawned an entire industry, several movies, several TV shows, and is still being talked about. Take a hint, executives. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2015, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-tng-ds9-voyager-is-kind-of-racist-hear-me-out/733305/22 "2015-10-02T23:27:55Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > What do you mean “no races within each alien culture”? > > You got Tuvok who’s dark skinned, Spock who’s light skinned, we seen Vulcans and Romulans who were Asiatic in appearance. We’ve seen black Bajorans. > > And both Klingons, and Romulans to a leser extent, come in bumpy and smooth. Plus those “black on one side, white on the other” guys from the TOS. (and the Bajorans used to have a caste system that was based on some sort of birth-heritage thing, IIRC). ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2015, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-tng-ds9-voyager-is-kind-of-racist-hear-me-out/733305/23 "2015-10-02T23:52:32Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > I can’t think of any species, from any show, that was the “alien of the week” that looked distinctly non human but yet acted, human. The Voth, in “Distant Origin.” ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2015, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-tng-ds9-voyager-is-kind-of-racist-hear-me-out/733305/24 "2015-10-02T23:55:52Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > What do you mean “no races within each alien culture”? > > You got Tuvok who’s dark skinned, Spock who’s light skinned, we seen Vulcans and Romulans who were Asiatic in appearance. We’ve seen black Bajorans. > > And both Klingons, and Romulans to a leser extent, come in bumpy and smooth. Okay, I don’t remember black Bajorans and I forgot about Tuvok. :smack: But the bumpy and smooth guys, that’s just due to the show revamping the characters. There was that nonsense with the Klingons and the “mutation” that shant never be spoke of. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2015, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-tng-ds9-voyager-is-kind-of-racist-hear-me-out/733305/25 "2015-10-02T23:58:31Z")
Oh yeah. The space Jews with the big noses were a pretty big clue. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2015, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-tng-ds9-voyager-is-kind-of-racist-hear-me-out/733305/26 "2015-10-03T00:01:59Z")
Each race shows a aspect of humanity, as such it will be more of a single dimension view especially from our perspective. The challenge, which I think they have handled well, is to build a multi-dimensioned culture around that single point. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2015, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-tng-ds9-voyager-is-kind-of-racist-hear-me-out/733305/27 "2015-10-03T00:02:14Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Over the course of the various series, we see plenty of alien species that look human and act more or less, Human. But I can’t think of any species, from any show, that was the “alien of the week” that looked distinctly non human but yet acted, human. “Enterprise” had that insectoid race. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2015, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-tng-ds9-voyager-is-kind-of-racist-hear-me-out/733305/28 "2015-10-03T18:31:30Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Agreed. Coincidently the later seasons were Rick Berman scaled back his involvement to focus on VOY. And Ron Moore came on board. Coincidence? I think not. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2015, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-tng-ds9-voyager-is-kind-of-racist-hear-me-out/733305/29 "2015-10-03T19:04:12Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > “Enterprise” had that insectoid race. Yeah, the Xindi. But, ENT wasn’t in the OP, so all discussion of it is void. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2015, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-tng-ds9-voyager-is-kind-of-racist-hear-me-out/733305/30 "2015-10-03T20:42:51Z")
> [@AncientHumanoid](#): > > Yeah, the Xindi. But, ENT wasn’t in the OP, so all discussion of it is void. > > 😉 Yeah… ENT was such a lousy show I almost consider it to be “not canon”. I was only able to tolerate like 4 or 5 episodes before I gave up. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2015, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-tng-ds9-voyager-is-kind-of-racist-hear-me-out/733305/31 "2015-10-03T22:10:36Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > I doubt it was intentional either, but, I can express my point another way: > > Over the course of the various series, we see plenty of alien species that look human and act more or less, Human. But I can’t think of any species, from any show, that was the “alien of the week” that looked distinctly non human but yet acted, human. There should have been fewer species who acted human period. What’s the use of that? Aliens who are different are going to be driven by different biology and will act different. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2015, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-tng-ds9-voyager-is-kind-of-racist-hear-me-out/733305/32 "2015-10-03T22:14:27Z")
> [@Master\_Wang-Ka](#): > > I am never going to understand why TV executives perpetually get the idea of a science fiction show where our characters are lost as all hell out in space somewhere and the entire premise of the show is about how to get home. Really? Because those shows write themselves for episodic television. Each episode has a hope of things changing, then the hope is dashed, and we’re right back where we were for the next episode. Worked for Gilligan. And the other advantage is you have a small world to deal with, and don’t have to build one. Having seen Time Tunnel and Lost in Space, when ST came on in 1966 I really appreciated that the Enterprise was not lost. Not like the execs learned - Voy and Space 1492 were both after someone did it right. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2015, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-tng-ds9-voyager-is-kind-of-racist-hear-me-out/733305/33 "2015-10-04T02:48:58Z")
A corollary to this problem is something my older brother first pointed out to me while watching the original series in the 70s. Namely the idea of _ **an entire planet** _ representing a single race or country or even city or town or village\*!\* A third of all the episodes could have taken place simply in different regions of the same planet. But, ya know, plot drive and all… ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2015, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-tng-ds9-voyager-is-kind-of-racist-hear-me-out/733305/34 "2015-10-04T03:05:24Z")
TNG makes a lot more sense if you realize the scifi setting is just set dressing, in actuality the aliens are stand ins for human cultures and the show is basically international relations in SPACE! Seriously I’m not kidding, watch the episodes involving humanoid aliens and tell me just by changing minor details and the set it wouldn’t be a show about inter cultural conflicts on earth. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2015, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-tng-ds9-voyager-is-kind-of-racist-hear-me-out/733305/35 "2015-10-04T06:08:42Z")
> [@Master\_Wang-Ka](#): > > **Nonsuch** got it in one. Y’see, not every TV writer is going to be able to do cultural and political situations on the scale of Dune, much less alien races and cultures. _cough_B5_cough_ Wait, you said “not every”, not “not any”, nevermind… ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2015, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-tng-ds9-voyager-is-kind-of-racist-hear-me-out/733305/36 "2015-10-04T06:17:56Z")
The problem is we’re talking about an episodic television series. It’s the nature of the form. You’ve got “sixty” minutes (which is actually more like forty) to tell a story. In addition to the plot for the episode, you’ve got a regular cast that’s going to be the main focus of your dialogue and characterization. So if you’re lucky, you’ve got maybe five or ten minutes to develop all of the alien characters. At that level, you’re not going to be able to go for subtlety. An entire alien race will be described in broad strokes, do whatever their role is in the story, and then exeunt stage right. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2015, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-tng-ds9-voyager-is-kind-of-racist-hear-me-out/733305/37 "2015-10-04T07:26:01Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > There should have been fewer species who acted human period. What’s the use of that? Aliens who are different are going to be driven by different biology and will act different. Well, there was [Kollos the Medusan](http://en.memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Is_There_in_Truth_No_Beauty%3F_%28episode%29). ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2015, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-tng-ds9-voyager-is-kind-of-racist-hear-me-out/733305/38 "2015-10-04T15:36:45Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > _cough_B5_cough_ > > Wait, you said “not every”, not “not any”, nevermind… True enough. I might also point out that in B5, I can’t really say that any of the alien races had a particular FOCUS. TV Tropes calls this the “Planet Of Hats” trope… the Vulcans’ hat is Logic and Science, the Klingon hat is Proud Warrior Race, the Ferengi hat is Rapacious Capitalism… …and this is all very good for storytelling purposes… …but what was the Narns’ hat? Rebelling against the Centuri? The Minbari hat? The Centuri and the Dilgar came closest – the Centuri hat was “Decaying Decadent Empire,” and the Dilgar were Nazis, but worse. This is good writing. _Star Trek,_ on the other hand, while it had some fantastic writing, generally used their alien races as single-trope allegory hooks… ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2015, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-tng-ds9-voyager-is-kind-of-racist-hear-me-out/733305/39 "2015-10-04T23:59:43Z")
I had heard that the capitalistic bent of the Ferengi was intended to portray _American_ capitalism of a certain variety. Of course, I also heard once that the Ferengi were modeled on the dealers at Trek conventions. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2015, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-tng-ds9-voyager-is-kind-of-racist-hear-me-out/733305/40 "2015-10-05T00:17:33Z")
Incidentally, if you want an example of NextGen anti-racist sanctimony at its finest, there’s the novel _War Drums_ by John Volholt. It’s an incredible preachy and contrived take-your-cod-liver-oil treatment of racism. If _Star Trek: The Next Generation_ had been adapted for After School Specials, this premise could have been its first episode. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-tng-ds9-voyager-is-kind-of-racist-hear-me-out/733305.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-tng-ds9-voyager-is-kind-of-racist-hear-me-out/733305.md?page=3)