# Star Trek: TOS to TNG uniform color change **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 3, 2014, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-to-tng-uniform-color-change/689919 "2014-06-03T13:34:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![TaoPilot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TaoPilot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TaoPilot)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-to-tng-uniform-color-change/689919/21 "2014-06-04T17:34:49Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > A little googling brings up lots of musing, but no solid answers. A commonly repeated (but uncited) story is that Patrick Stewart and Jonathan Frakes just looked better in red, and Spiner’s Data makeup clashed with the blue shirt he would have worn. So they decided to do some shuffling. I wish there were some pictures from them testing Data in a blue uniform. I’d like to see how that would have looked. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-to-tng-uniform-color-change/689919/22 "2014-06-04T17:54:31Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Good point. They went “retro” - they “brought back” the jackets from the time of _The Cage_ as well. Very stylish. > > Much better than the “long underwear” uniforms of TMP! “Full Dress Penguin Suit” ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-to-tng-uniform-color-change/689919/23 "2014-06-04T17:56:13Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > Neither. The (IIRC) unnamed helmsman/navigator/whatever dies in “Encounter at Farpoint,” frozen stiff by Q. Gah! Yes! I must have been conflating that with the guy who was killed by Nagilum in “Where Silence Has Lease”, which came later than “Lonely Among Us”. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-to-tng-uniform-color-change/689919/24 "2014-06-04T19:04:35Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > Incidentally, the “gold” uniforms of TOS weren’t really gold at all, they were more of a greenish color, but the cameras of the time picked them up as gold. Of course Kirk had that alternate wrap around uniform that actually did look green, as did his dress uniform, so I dunno why one turned gold and those didn’t. Fuckin cameras. I know, isn’t it weird? I have the GAF Viewmaster for ST:TOS, and the “gold” uniforms look quite green on that film. It was odd to see it - the Viewmaster is the one that looked wrong. ---
**Author:** ![ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a8b319/32.png) [@ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ryan)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-to-tng-uniform-color-change/689919/25 "2014-06-05T05:40:35Z")
oops ---
**Author:** ![ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a8b319/32.png) [@ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ryan)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-to-tng-uniform-color-change/689919/26 "2014-06-05T05:42:22Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > Neither. The (IIRC) unnamed helmsman/navigator/whatever dies in “Encounter at Farpoint,” frozen stiff by Q. That was [Lt. Torres](http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Torres) and he recovered from being frozen. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-to-tng-uniform-color-change/689919/27 "2014-06-05T06:39:49Z")
Apropos of almost nothing, I really liked the _Voyager_ [uniforms](http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111209201951/memoryalpha/en/images/5/5b/Starfleet_uniforms_%28late_2360s-early_2370s%29.jpg), with the crew neck undershirts, the inverted look of which was used in the [later TNG movies](http://ingenre.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Starfleet_uniforms_post-2373.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-to-tng-uniform-color-change/689919/28 "2014-06-05T06:43:49Z")
The films were processed in post-production to bring out the “warm” colors, I think. That probably leached some of the blue out of the green shirts, rendering them “gold” (or “tenne,” as was listed in the original Tech Manual). I had always assumed it had something to do with the color mixers of the period’s broadcast system, but now I see in the remastered episodes that the gold color is still there. Different production runs of fabric seldom yield cloth with _exactly_ the same coloring. I imagine this is why Kirk’s wraparound uniform didn’t photograph the same as his standard one. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-to-tng-uniform-color-change/689919/29 "2014-06-05T12:24:28Z")
> [@ryan](#): > > That was [Lt. Torres](http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Torres) and he recovered from being frozen. I stand corrected. I’ll have to review Phil Farrand’s book and see why I thought what I thought. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-to-tng-uniform-color-change/689919/30 "2014-06-05T12:24:51Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > The films were processed in post-production to bring out the “warm” colors, I think. That probably leached some of the blue out of the green shirts, rendering them “gold” (or “tenne,” as was listed in the original Tech Manual). I had always assumed it had something to do with the color mixers of the period’s broadcast system, but now I see in the remastered episodes that the gold color is still there. > > Different production runs of fabric seldom yield cloth with _exactly_ the same coloring. I imagine this is why Kirk’s wraparound uniform didn’t photograph the same as his standard one. Post-production processing was the cause of one of the more amusing anecdotes about the early days of Trek. When they filmed “The Menagerie”, they would send the scenes with the Orion slave girl (the green one) to the lab at the end of the day and the film would come back with the actress…regular flesh-colored! They did this something like three times before someone thought to actually ask the lab techs what was going on. Apparently, they thought the green was a flaw in the film and were color-adjusting it out! ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-to-tng-uniform-color-change/689919/31 "2014-06-05T14:26:21Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Post-production processing was the cause of one of the more amusing anecdotes about the early days of Trek. When they filmed “The Menagerie”, they would send the scenes with the Orion slave girl (the green one) to the lab at the end of the day and the film would come back with the actress…regular flesh-colored! They did this something like three times before someone thought to actually ask the lab techs what was going on. Apparently, they thought the green was a flaw in the film and were color-adjusting it out! According to Justman and Solow, Majel Barrett was the Orion slave girl in the pre-production test shots. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-to-tng-uniform-color-change/689919/32 "2014-06-05T15:20:58Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Different production runs of fabric seldom yield cloth with _exactly_ the same coloring. I imagine this is why Kirk’s wraparound uniform didn’t photograph the same as his standard one. I thought it was because the standard uniform shirts were velour and the wraparound wasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-to-tng-uniform-color-change/689919/33 "2014-06-05T15:35:35Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > I thought it was because the standard uniform shirts were velour and the wraparound wasn’t. Quite possible. In either case, the colors wouldn’t coincide exactly. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-to-tng-uniform-color-change/689919/34 "2014-06-05T15:55:27Z")
> [@leahcim](#): > > …Suddenly ten more warbirds decloaked. Kirk turned to his yeoman and said, “Yeoman, bring me my brown pants!” The same joke was told by a smuggler in a recent _Game of Thrones_ episode. > [@mbh](#): > > The story I heard was, that Gene Roddenberry got tired of red-shirt jokes. So he decreed that the two least-likely-to-die characters would wear red. I remember reading something similar back in 1986-87 or so - maybe in _Starlog_? My favorite sf/pop culture magazine at the time. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-to-tng-uniform-color-change/689919/35 "2014-06-05T16:00:28Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > The same joke was told by a smuggler in a recent _Game of Thrones_ episode. It was also a Dave Allen joke about Nelson at Trafalgar (_“Off the port bow: Forty-five Froggie frigates!”_). ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-to-tng-uniform-color-change/689919/36 "2014-06-05T16:33:58Z")
The progress of the uniforms always seemed kind of goofy to me. Uniform changes happened about like this: – The Menagerie and Where No Man Has Gone Before – Regular TOS – Updated the previous uniforms, classic gold, red, and blue colors become iconic. – ST The Motion Picture – I liked the look of these but it was quite a departure from the colors of the series. Evidently everyone hated these and they were uncomfortable and hard to get on and off. – ST The Wrath of Khan – Became the standard throughout the movies. Always seemed a little too heavy and formal to me. – Pre Next Generation – Shown in flashbacks during TNG, consisted of the movie coats without the turtlenecks underneath. Seemed to be missing something without the turtlenecks. – TNG First Season – No collars and the infamous skants. – TNG Season two – Skants are gone and the leads got newer uniforms but the extras all wore the previous style. Later the updated uniform was worn by all characters. – Deep Space Nine – The uniform is more like a jumpsuit which makes sense if you’re poking around in a dirty space station. TNG movies had a mix of this uniform and the previous. – Voyager – Sort of a reverse of the jumpsuit used before mixed with TNG colors. The reality of it is costume designers introducing better designs or updating the material as well as creating distinctive looks for the different shows but what seems odd to me is that Star Fleet essentially uses the same uniform for 70 or so years (TOS movie jackets) and then flips through several different styles within a few years (TNG - Voyager). I didn’t even include ST: Enterprise uniforms. ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-to-tng-uniform-color-change/689919/37 "2014-06-05T16:51:01Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > It was also a Dave Allen joke about Nelson at Trafalgar (_“Off the port bow: Forty-five Froggie frigates!”_). It is a hoary old joke that his surely been applied millions of times to thousands of contexts. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-to-tng-uniform-color-change/689919/38 "2014-06-05T16:54:28Z")
To go where no joke… has gone… BEFORE! … [music swells] ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-to-tng-uniform-color-change/689919/39 "2014-06-05T16:58:50Z")
> [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](#): > > – ST The Wrath of Khan – Became the standard throughout the movies. Always seemed\*\* a little too heavy\*\* and formal to me. Khan Noonien Singh: “It is very cold in space!” ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Q](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/898d66/32.png) [@Johnny\_Q](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Q)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-to-tng-uniform-color-change/689919/40 "2014-06-05T22:15:38Z")
Due to a lack of Redshirt signups(they had to post the casualty rates) Starfleet hired a marketing consultant at great expense(or whatever passes for expense in a cashless society.) In the end the only solution they could afford was to make the Redshirts’ shirts not be red anymore. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-to-tng-uniform-color-change/689919.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-to-tng-uniform-color-change/689919.md?page=3)