# Star Trek TOS: Vulcans = traitors? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 7, 2011, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-vulcans-traitors/598922 "2011-10-07T19:07:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-vulcans-traitors/598922/1 "2011-10-07T19:07:33Z")
In the first season episode “This side of Paradise”, the crew of the Enterprise end up getting sprayed by plant spores that makes them want to abandon their ship and live a simple life on Omicron Ceti III. > **["Star Trek" This Side of Paradise (TV Episode 1967) ⭐ 7.8 | Action,...](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0708483/)** > > 50m | TV-PG Kirk finally finds out that strong emotions somehow overwhelm the control of the plants/spores, and he picks a fight with Spock to free him, and get his help to free the rest of the crew. Here’s the dialog of the taunts (bolding mine): > [@](#): > > Capt. Kirk: All right, you mutinous, disloyal, computerized half-breed. We’ll see about you deserting my ship. > Spock: The term “half-breed” is somewhat applicable, but “computerized” is inaccurate. A machine can be computerized, not a man. > Capt. Kirk: What makes you think you’re a man? You’re an overgrown jackrabbit. An elf with a hyperactive thyroid. > Spock: Jim, I don’t understand… > Capt. Kirk: Of course you don’t understand. You don’t have the brains to understand. All you have is printed circuits. > Spock: Captain, if you will excuse me. > [Tries to activate the transporter] > Capt. Kirk: [blocks Spock’s way and interupts] What can you expect from a simpering, devil-eared freak whose father was a computer and his mother an encyclopedia. > Spock: My mother was a teacher. My father an ambassador. > Capt. Kirk: Your father was a computer, like his son. An ambassador from a **planet of traitors. The Vulcan never lived who had an ounce of integrity…** > Spock: Captain, please don’t… > Capt. Kirk: You’re a traitor from a race of traitors. Disloyal to the core. Rotten! Like the rest of your subhuman race. And you’ve got the GALL… to make love to that girl! > Spock: That’s enough. > Capt. Kirk: Does she know what she’s getting, Spock? A carcass full of memory banks who should be squatting on a mushroom? Instead of passing himself off as a man? You belong in the circus, Spock, not a starship. Right next to the dog face boy! Anywho, Spock actually objects to “computerised”, but doesn’t object to “Traitor(s)”? Has there been any followup or explanation of this? My fanwank: Earth got into a war with the Romulans, as stated in “Balance of Terror”. Vulcan(s) opted out. Humans held a grudge about it. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-vulcans-traitors/598922/2 "2011-10-07T19:31:03Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > …My fanwank: Earth got into a war with the Romulans, as stated in “Balance of Terror”. Vulcan(s) opted out. Humans held a grudge about it. I can go along with that. Especially since Vulcans and Romulans are, for all intents and purposes, different factions of _the same species_. And it’s never been established in canon exactly when the Vulcans became aware of this (or if they were always aware). This wasn’t known among humans until Balance of Terror (which took place _before_ This Side of Paradise), but the Romulans were conducting covert operations on Vulcan (with the help of Vulcan collaborators) as early as the 22nd century. IIRC T’Pol also seemed rather knowleldgable about the Romulans (to the point of correcting Capt. Archer’s pronunceation) when they encountered the Romulan probe ship. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-vulcans-traitors/598922/3 "2011-10-07T19:40:54Z")
I always assumed that Kirk was just making up random shit to try to rile Spock. Most of his accusations could be passed off by Spock as exaggeration or opinion, but the “computerized” term was factually inaccurate, so he had to object. ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-vulcans-traitors/598922/4 "2011-10-07T19:55:19Z")
I’ve been watching TOS with my kids and they sure did enjoy insulting Spock! The other day we saw “What are little girls made of?” and I had to point out to them that Kirk was cleverly programming the android with a clue for Spock–which was of course an insult. I’m betting that would never work now, all the ‘half-breed’ stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-vulcans-traitors/598922/5 "2011-10-07T20:27:56Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Anywho, Spock actually objects to “computerised”, but doesn’t object to “Traitor(s)”? > > Has there been any followup or explanation of this? Isn’t it simply because Spock is failing to follow orders, and deserting? Calling him disloyal is accurate, mutinous and a traitor only a slight exaggeration. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-vulcans-traitors/598922/6 "2011-10-07T20:31:03Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > I always assumed that Kirk was just making up random shit to try to rile Spock. Most of his accusations could be passed off by Spock as exaggeration or opinion, but the “computerized” term was factually inaccurate, so he had to object. I thought of that, but I am not certain. “Computerised” is a negative exaggeration of Spock’s anal retentive, err… analytical and detached demeaner. A hint of truth stretched into an insult. Granted, the statement “an elf with a hyperactive thyroid” isn’t really factual. But saying that “there never was a Vulcan with an ounce of integrity” sounds like it ought to have some history behind it, even if incorrect or grossly exaggerated. (Like most stereotypes. ) ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-vulcans-traitors/598922/7 "2011-10-07T20:32:09Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Isn’t it simply because Spock is failing to follow orders, and deserting? Calling him disloyal is accurate, mutinous and a traitor only a slight exaggeration. Why mention a race of traitors? After all, the rest of the crew was human… ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-vulcans-traitors/598922/8 "2011-10-07T21:37:53Z")
He is trying to piss off a Vulcan. Maybe the point isn’t the insults themselves, but the fact that they make no logical sense. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-vulcans-traitors/598922/9 "2011-10-07T21:49:53Z")
I’m nowhere fan enough to know what happened when or anything, but I suspect it has to do with the Romulans. Their attitude is to pretty much conquer (rather than ally with) anything non-Romulan. The Vulcans go against this and became part of the Federation. So from an ancestral point of view, they are traitors to their origins. Had Romulans and their disdain for Vulcans working (and breeding) with humans been established at this point in the series? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-vulcans-traitors/598922/10 "2011-10-07T21:58:12Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > He is trying to piss off a Vulcan. Then he should’ve said pi was equal to 3. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-vulcans-traitors/598922/11 "2011-10-07T21:58:38Z")
I think the explanation is a little more direct. Spock was half-Vulcan and half-human. He self-identified as Vulcan. Kirk insulted the Vulcans to belittle everything Spock had chosen to believe about himself: logic, rationality and so on, not to mention his responsibility to the ship and the Federation. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-vulcans-traitors/598922/12 "2011-10-07T21:59:28Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > But saying that “there never was a Vulcan with an ounce of integrity” sounds like it ought to have some history behind it, even if incorrect or grossly exaggerated. (Like most stereotypes. ) That part may not be directly related to the “traitor” bit, beyond using it as a springboard. Part of the Vulcan schtick is never lying, so saying that none of them have any integrity is a pretty major insult. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-vulcans-traitors/598922/13 "2011-10-07T22:05:28Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > Part of the Vulcan schtick is never lying Actually, that’s entirely untrue. The one TOS episode in which it was claimed, Spock was lying a _lot_. He let the Romulan Commander _believe_ Vulcans never lied (after _she_ asked about it), but of course he was lying. Later TNG writers seemed to take this as canon (though it didn’t come up much since there wasn’t a Vulcan character in the main, or even recurring, cast), though ENT writers did not. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-vulcans-traitors/598922/14 "2011-10-07T22:32:43Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Actually, that’s entirely untrue. The one TOS episode in which it was claimed, Spock was lying a _lot_. He let the Romulan Commander _believe_ Vulcans never lied (after _she_ asked about it), but of course he was lying. I didn’t say they never lied, I just said it was part of their schtick. His lies wouldn’t have worked nearly as well if it weren’t–though even at that, he went out of his way through most of the episode to phrase things so that they were misleading, rather than outright false. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-vulcans-traitors/598922/15 "2011-10-07T22:35:10Z")
Tensions between Earth and Vulcans was a major plot arc of Enterprise. Vulcans were repulsed by the stench of humans. They considered us infantile and untrustworthy for space travel. Later stories showed tension over decisions Commander Archer made. We were’t always a-hole buddies with the Vulcans. 😉 Even in TOS IIRC Spock was the only Vulcan that went to the Starfleet Academy. His father nearly disowned for that decision. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-vulcans-traitors/598922/16 "2011-10-07T22:49:32Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Even in TOS IIRC Spock was the only Vulcan that went to the Starfleet Academy. No, there was an episode with a whole ship full of Vulcans. It got blown up. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-vulcans-traitors/598922/17 "2011-10-07T22:49:53Z")
Enterprise did a really good job fleshing out the back story of the Vulcans. They were society based on peace. Most of their early space policies were focused on appeasement. The Vulcans were very alarmed when Archer stood up to the bullies in space. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-vulcans-traitors/598922/18 "2011-10-07T23:56:02Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > No, there was an episode with a whole ship full of Vulcans. It got blown up. IIRC, it was a Vulcan ship, not a Starfleet ship. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2011, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-vulcans-traitors/598922/19 "2011-10-08T00:13:39Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > In the first season episode “This side of Paradise”, the crew of the Enterprise end up getting sprayed by plant spores that makes them want to abandon their ship and live a simple life on Omicron Ceti III. > > ["Star Trek" This Side of Paradise (TV Episode 1967) - IMDb](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0708483/) > > Kirk finally finds out that strong emotions somehow overwhelm the control of the plants/spores, and he picks a fight with Spock to free him, and get his help to free the rest of the crew. Here’s the dialog of the taunts (bolding mine): > > Anywho, Spock actually objects to “computerised”, but doesn’t object to “Traitor(s)”? > > Has there been any followup or explanation of this? > > My fanwank: Earth got into a war with the Romulans, as stated in “Balance of Terror”. Vulcan(s) opted out. Humans held a grudge about it. Spock holds his anger in check enough to make a rational response to the first insult; by the time we get to “traitorous” Spock is so angry that he is struggling to resist punching Kirk through a bulkhead - he’s in no state to make a rational response anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2011, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-vulcans-traitors/598922/20 "2011-10-08T00:35:08Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > IIRC, it was a Vulcan ship, not a Starfleet ship. Nope, the [USS Intrepid, registry number NCC-1631.](http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/USS_Intrepid_(NCC-1631)) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos-vulcans-traitors/598922.md?page=2)