# Star Trek (TOS) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted, star-trek-paramount\ **Created:** [September 21, 2020, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122 "2020-09-21T05:26:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/181 "2020-09-30T05:21:10Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Fucks sake. It’s not like people didn’t know how to write in the 1960s. We had amazing literature and even amazing sci-fi in this period. It’s not like good storytelling hadn’t been invented by then. I don’t know how major television productions could be so incredibly stupid. Amazing science fiction, definitely. Amazing sci-fi (defined as TV and movie stuff) not so much. I was around then. Aside from the anthology programs, which were sometimes good but had lots of monsters, we had Lost in Space, Time Tunnel, Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea, and My Living Doll. Remember, they didn’t have writing rooms for dramas back then. They got scripts and the scripts got rewritten. And they had budget constraints. For the first year and a half the stories were pretty good, though some clunkers got in. After that, not so much. Remember, please, this was just a few years after the “Vast Wasteland” speech. Given how the networks were frightened of any controversy, TOS did pretty good. Gomer Pyle, after all was threatened with being sent to Alaska. Never Vietnam. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/182 "2020-09-30T05:31:13Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > **Aside from the anthology programs, which were sometimes good but had lots of monsters, we had Lost in Space, Time Tunnel, Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea,** and My Living Doll. Interesting … juxtaposition here. 🤔 You left out _ **My Favorite Martian** _ and _ **The Invaders** _. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/183 "2020-09-30T15:24:12Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > You left out _ **My Favorite Martian** _ Intereresting point there. I’ve been rewatching MFM from the beginning, and there’s a lot less stupidity than I would have thought. Some episodes are quite clever, and actually make sense from a story telling point. And Exigius 12 1/2 is not always as superior as he believes himself to be, something I never noticed when I was younger. And the science isn’t as comic book as I remembered it, when it doesn’t involve invisibility and levitation. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/184 "2020-09-30T17:49:03Z")
This thread inspired me to to go back and rewatch the Top Ten EPs . One list had The Enemy Within as number 10. I am rethinking this now. But I will definitely watch The City of the Edge of Forever and a few others ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/185 "2020-09-30T18:16:23Z")
I should have included _ **It’s About Time** _, too. 🤭 Astronauts, cavemen, dinosaurs … this one had them all! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ponderoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponderoid/32/19221_2.png) [@Ponderoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponderoid)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/186 "2020-09-30T19:49:43Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > it can also (and probably does on a much more common rate than anyone wants to admit) have your transported self be the quantum probability version of you where you don’t remember where you left your keys, or what you had for lunch, or has cancer, or did/did not sleep with your HS prom date, or likes/no longer likes puppies. A million probabilities for versions of you with small undetectable differences. This is pretty much the central plot point of _The Infinitive of Go_ by John Brunner. Except in that novel, the farther one transported, the bigger and more noticeable changes, thus the scene on the cover. [![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2d/Infinitive_of_Go.jpg) ](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2d/Infinitive_of_Go.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![vislor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vislor/32/5933_2.png) [@vislor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vislor)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/187 "2020-09-30T20:19:23Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Worf at least, was sort of the alien spiritual successor to Spock, in that he was human and alien simultaneously, giving the viewers and writers an easy in to alien customs, physiology, etc… and in Worf’s case, something of a window into being an outsider in one’s own society. Okay, a bit late to the party but enjoyed the reading. Thanks! for the above bit, to be clear, Worf was full Klingon who was raised among humans after his parents were killed when he was six. I was never a fan of Worf first time I watched it. Worf played the part of knowing all of the good of the Klingons, based on what his earth parents could find, and none of the bad. He was always disappointed in most interactions he had with Klingons, especially long term. With regards to TOS, we watched most of them six years ago when we got a deal on the blu-rays. I liked the update effects better which is rude of me because I can watch the original Doctor Who from then and be fine with it. (Although I would love an updated version of the Doctor Who effects.) I enjoyed it a lot more than I thought I would. Yes, more sexist than I remember but I also was shocked that Shatner didn’t do the … dramatic … pause that … he … is … remembered for near as much as I figured he would. It sparked conversations between us, good or bad. What I will say the reboot movies did better was that I thought they showed us Kirk was smart and intuitive better than the series did. With regards to Enterprise, since it was discussed a lot, we are doing a rewatch and aren’t too far into it. I liked it back when it was on, although some things were annoying. So far we like it. I think they could have been more subtle with many things. We like all the characters, especially Phlox! We like that actor, though. And I agree his inclusion made more sense, given their first mission was to take the wounded Klingon home and he was able to save said Klingon. (I had no idea the Klingon homeworld was only five days at warp 5 from earth???) I can’t speak to Jolene’s acting as I haven’t seen her in much else but it’s working as a Vulcan so far. TNG is “my” Trek because it was on in my late teens, early twenties, and it was fun for me. Lots of fun memories of watching it. (It’s probably why I like Orville so much.) Thanks for the fun thread! ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/188 "2020-09-30T20:36:52Z")
One of my biggest peeves with all the Star Trek Series is the prevalence of corridors. With the turbolift thing, why do we constantly see characters traversing hallways? What a ridiculously inefficient waste of interior space. Yes, I have seen the graphic of a thousand people standing on the -D saucer, so I get how big the starship is supposed to be. But, come on, why should people have to trundle through endless corridors to get to the place? It is idiotic and inefficient design. (Full disclosure, I have a strong personal dislike for halls from the get-go and feel that interior design should trend toward minimizing/eliminate them as much as possible.) ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/189 "2020-09-30T21:15:37Z")
I imagine there would be some notion of compartmentalization and damage control inherent in their naval architecture, even considering all their whiz-bang force fields and stuff. Having rooms, corridors and doors is a relatively easy way to accomplish that, unlike having large open spaces, or all the trouble with transporting everywhere within the ship. Or are you getting more at the idea that people would have to walk everywhere within the ship? ISTR that one of the companion books to ST:TNG described turbolifts as not just being elevators; they were also horizontal movers. So maybe it’s like the turbolift delivers you to your “neighborhood” of cabins in the ship, and you walk the last 100 yards or so. Or possibly that people _like_ to walk around sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/190 "2020-09-30T21:29:51Z")
The turbolift definitely moves horizontally as well as vertically. This is visible through the window at the back of it, where you can see whatever-it-is in the background moving, sometimes horizontally, sometimes vertically. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/191 "2020-09-30T21:35:14Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > The sparklin’ pattern is not the disassembly of people into atoms, but the superposition of ALL probabilities, such as alternate universe people, having two people (one meek, the other violently animalistic) at the same time, or the probability where humans are decended from octopi, or having your organs on the outside (poor Sonak, we hardly knew ye!). > [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > . . . but it can also (and probably does on a much more common rate than anyone wants to admit) have your transported self be the quantum probability version of you where you don’t remember where you left your keys, or what you had for lunch, or has cancer, or did/did not sleep with your HS prom date, or likes/no longer likes puppies. A million probabilities for versions of you with small undetectable differences. So getting the re-construction phase timed just exactly right is of first importance in the transporter technology. Get it even slightly wrong, and you can no longer predict where the transported person will be, nor even what the transported person will be. In other words, you’ve just described the Infinite Improbability Drive. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/192 "2020-09-30T22:56:34Z")
> [@bump](#): > > ISTR that one of the companion books to ST:TNG described turbolifts as not just being elevators; they were also horizontal movers I have blueprints I got about 45 years ago that clearly show horizontal turbolift channels. But, really, it would make more sense to have those Futurama habitrail vacuum tube things. I mean, what is more appropriate for a starship than vacuum tubes? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/193 "2020-09-30T22:58:56Z")
Off-Topic: I’ve always wanted Jimmy Carter to propose that we build those. They could call them Habitrail for Humanity. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/194 "2020-10-01T00:05:10Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > One of my biggest peeves with all the Star Trek Series is the prevalence of corridors. Turbolift, ordinary corridors, AND access tunnels! ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/195 "2020-10-01T00:25:05Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Interesting … juxtaposition here. 🤔 > > You left out _ **My Favorite Martian** _ and _ **The Invaders** _ . Hey, I was old enough to appreciate Julie Newmar. True about what I left out. I watched both of them also. The second season, where he had some support, was more interesting, IIRC. But it was still a Quinn Martin man on the run show. Did you know Keith Laumer wrote the novelization? The first one, anyhow. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/196 "2020-10-01T00:26:48Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > I should have included _ **It’s About Time** _ , too. 🤭 > > Astronauts, cavemen, dinosaurs … this one had them all! And space shuttles that could reach the speed of light and take off again. I excluded fantasy, thus no I Dream of Jeannie. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/197 "2020-10-01T00:30:24Z")
Capsules, not shuttles. The same capsule was used at least twice in _ **Gilligan’s Island** _, another Sherwood Schwartz series. On one occasion, it was painted in Soviet colors and had bottles of vodka on board. The capsules’ ability to take off and land gently appealed to me also. What a pity we were never able to build spacecraft like that in the '60s! ☹ ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/198 "2020-10-01T00:37:34Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Capsules, not shuttles. The same capsule was used at least twice in _ **Gilligan’s Island** _, another Sherwood Schwartz series. On one occasion, it was painted in Soviet colors and had bottles of vodka on board. > > The capsules’ ability to take off and land gently appeaIed to me also. What a pity we were never able to build spacecraft like that in the '60s! ☹ Off topic again: One of the remarkable things (to me) about the Soviet space program is that they (usually) managed to achieve soft landings on LAND with their capsules, and were not forced to bring their navy into the recovery process. But that makes me wonder about the American splashdowns. How deep below the surface did a capsule reach before bobbing back up to where the destroyer could retrieve it? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/199 "2020-10-01T00:41:23Z")
At a certain point in the development of the television industry, good writers wouldn’t dream of writing for television and television producers wouldn’t dream of paying the price for a good writer, even if they knew how to locate one. And television hadn’t been around long enough for people to have learned what the most effective story-telling techniques would be for the medium. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/200 "2020-10-01T00:49:04Z")
The recovery on land was due to the huge territory available and the limited capabilities of the Soviet navy. I also suspect Moscow was afraid of the cosmonauts and their equipment falling into other hands by landing at sea. When Gus Grissom landed in _Liberty Bell 7_, the hatch blew prematurely, and he was lucky to get out before it sank to the bottom of the ocean The capsule was recovered only recently. IIRC, both the Mercury and Gemini capsules had to wait for Navy frogmen to attach flotation collars to them. The Apollo capsules had their own flotation devices built in around the heat shield, so they always floated upright. I think the only time an Apollo hatch was opened while the capsule was still in the water was when the recovery team tossed biological gear in to the crew of Apollo 11. Everyone was afraid they might have brought some infectious disease home with them from the Moon. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122.md?page=11)