# Star Trek (TOS) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted, star-trek-paramount\ **Created:** [September 21, 2020, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122 "2020-09-21T05:26:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2020, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/341 "2020-10-22T15:07:18Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Three that I immediately think of: “Return of the Archons,” “The Changeling,” and “I, Mudd.” Doesn’t Kirk also talk down M-5 in “The Ultimate Computer”? Or does Daystrom do that? ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2020, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/342 "2020-10-22T15:09:51Z")
He (Kirk) does, but the computer doesn’t self-destruct. It just shuts down and waits to be killed. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2020, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/343 "2020-10-22T15:12:22Z")
Likewise, WHAT ARE LITTLE GIRLS MADE OF? has him argue the robot into turning on its master, since you can’t fulfill any other directives if you no longer exist — causing it, like I said. to turn on its master and, well, stop existing. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2020, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/344 "2020-10-22T15:23:57Z")
In the end, it’s Christine Chapel who convinces Dr Korby (the android) to commit suicide (and take Andrea with him). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2020, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/345 "2020-10-22T15:26:41Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > In the end, it’s Christine Chapel who convinces Dr Korby (the android) to commit suicide (and take Andrea with him) I’m just talking ‘bout Ruk. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2020, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/346 "2020-10-22T15:32:20Z")
Ruk was acting out of self-preservation. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2020, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/347 "2020-10-22T18:26:53Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I’m just talking ‘bout Ruk. Then we can dig it. One of the _Star Trek_ comic books from the 1980s, when DC had the license, features the crew stuck on a “Shore Leave” like planet that was designed more like a nursery for the long-departed alien race’s children. When Kirk tried the “feed the computer a paradox” move, it just patronizingly responded “Oh, poor dear…” as one might to a very young child who is speaking frustrated nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2020, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/348 "2020-10-22T18:44:39Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > > > I’m just talking ‘bout Ruk. > > Then we can dig it. Can’t believe I missed that one! **DUH!** 😖 ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2020, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/349 "2020-10-25T07:50:54Z")
Okay, I just finished watching _All Our Tomorrows_. One of the best episodes of the series. And also the saddest. It made me want to hug a Polaroid camera and tell it everything is going to be okay. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2020, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/350 "2020-10-25T08:07:05Z")
Oops. I mean _All Our Yesterdays_. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2020, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/351 "2020-10-25T09:07:03Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > > [@Pavelb1](#): > > > > But I also get how no matter how high-minded Kirk is, its a ridiculous violation of the PD. Kirk probably got away with it because of all the extenuating circumstances. > > “Circumstances” ? You mean, like the Enterprise being declared a casualty of war and the whole crew was expected to attend the suicide booths? No, I think in this case, the Prime Directive is irrelevant. You do not allow 430 people to be killed just so you are not offending the natives. And the real reason for ending the war was the same reason you fill in that pit with the pointy sticks in it rather than steadfastly laying the false ground cover back over it. > There absolutely was no violation here. The problem isn’t that he saved his crew. It was that, after he had (through threatening the mass destruction of a planet, including all its civilians) gotten back his people and was free to leave. He instead stuck around to destroy the computer. And he did so, as he explicitly says, to try to force them to have to work out a peace treaty lest there be a real, active war. Granted, the whole conflict was that they had already violated the treaty if they didn’t kill the Enterprise crew, and thus war would happen anyways. So destroying the computer never made much sense to me. Best I can figure is that, if the Enterprise got away, they could possibly say it was beyond their control and negotiate while keeping the system running, and Kirk wouldn’t have that. So he made sure that they had to face the idea of real war or real peace–no more simulations. I don’t know whether that technically violated the Prime Directive. I just know that it was typical Kirk–not caring about any possible rules from some stuffy Admirals or Commodores. If he thought something was bad, he’d destroy it. It’s Picard who agonized over doing the right thing and staying within the rules. Kirk used, as Spock would later put it, “cowboy diplomacy.” ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2020, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/352 "2020-10-25T12:36:14Z")
I don’t understand the hate for _Elaan of Troyius, from previous posts above_ This episode has IMHO the best battle in the series, the best battle music." We’ll pivot at warp two, and bring all tubes to bare!" ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2020, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/353 "2020-10-25T15:26:36Z")
Bear, not bear. A bear is an animal. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2020, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/354 "2020-10-25T15:29:28Z")
I’d hug Mariette Hartley. 🥰 It was an okay episode, kind of _ **Twilight-Zoney** _. Definitely superior to most other third-season episodes ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2020, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/355 "2020-10-25T15:38:33Z")
> [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > t was the late 60’s, early 70’s. It is remarkable that the thing is even talked about at all. It really is. I cannot think of a major ongoing franchise that was LESS successful in its first iteration. I mean, I can understand why “Star Wars” became a huge thing - the 1977 movie was the biggest box office hit ever, and one of the most influential movies ever. But “Star Trek” was only a moderately successful series, and was followed by nothing at all for eight or nine years, until the animated series had a brief run. The first movie was generally considered a disappointment, and while some of its sequels were better regarded none were anywhere near Star Wars level events. Yet the franchise just caught people’s imaginations. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2020, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/356 "2020-10-25T15:54:07Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I don’t know whether that technically violated the Prime Directive. Memory Alpha claims that General Order One is " \*No starship may interfere with the normal development of any alien life or society." In this case, two separate planets were involved in the conflict, so they had passed the point of what one would call ‘normal development’ (i.e., they had some significant form of space travel). Additionally, the war represented a real, non-obvious hazard to explorers. By comparison, an giant amoeba floating through space is a living thing, that has a right to survive, so blowing it up might look like a violation of the prime directive. Where does one draw the line? By the time a society has reached the UFP level, I get the feeling that bright-line laws will have been found to be severely wanting. The division between right and wrong will be much blurrier and situationally defined. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2020, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/357 "2020-10-25T16:22:07Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Yet the franchise just caught people’s imaginations. I’ve long thought one factor was that the series showed there would BE a future, and that it wouldn’t be a dystopian crapsack post-nuclear wasteland horror. There was a certain level of positive optimism there that I think appeals to many people. > [@eschereal](#): > > Where does one draw the line? By the time a society has reached the UFP level, I get the feeling that bright-line laws will have been found to be severely wanting. The division between right and wrong will be much blurrier and situationally defined. I’ve long had the impression that the Prime Directive was to protect pre-space cultures from exploitation and worse. Once folks get to warp and FTL they’re out in the greater universe and no longer protected with the PD. Which in some cases leads to exploitation and worse. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2020, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/358 "2020-10-25T16:43:04Z")
> [@Icerigger](#): > > I don’t understand the hate for _Elaan of Troyius, from previous posts above_ > This episode has IMHO the best battle in the series, the best battle music." We’ll pivot at warp two, and bring all tubes to bare!" Also, one of McCoy’s best lines ever. To Spock: Are you out of your Vulcan mind? ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2020, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/359 "2020-10-25T17:38:21Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Memory Alpha claims that General Order One is " \*No starship may interfere with the normal development of any alien life or society." A strict interpetation of the order means having relations with alien cultures violates the order. No treaties, no trade, no wars, no Vulcan-human hybrid babies. All of that fits under “interfere”. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2020, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/360 "2020-10-25T17:41:11Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Okay, I just finished watching _All Our Tomorrows_ . > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Oops. I mean _All Our Yesterdays_ . Tomorrow is Yesterday. The best episode was “Reurn to Tomorrow is All Our Yesterday’s Enterprise.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122.md?page=19)