# Star Trek (TOS) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted, star-trek-paramount\ **Created:** [September 21, 2020, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122 "2020-09-21T05:26:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/441 "2020-12-05T16:32:03Z")
[Dulmur](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0088269/?ref_=tt_trv_qu): Captain, why’d you take the Defiant back in time? [Captain Sisko](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000984/?ref_=tt_trv_qu): It was an accident. [Lucsly](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0418012/?ref_=tt_trv_qu): So you’re not contending it was a pre-destination paradox? [Dulmur](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0088269/?ref_=tt_trv_qu): A time loop? That you were meant to go back into the past? [Captain Sisko](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000984/?ref_=tt_trv_qu): Um… no. [Dulmur](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0088269/?ref_=tt_trv_qu): Good. [Lucsly](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0418012/?ref_=tt_trv_qu): We hate those. So - what happened? [Captain Sisko](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000984/?ref_=tt_trv_qu): This may take some time. [Dulmur](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0088269/?ref_=tt_trv_qu): Is that a joke? [Captain Sisko](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000984/?ref_=tt_trv_qu): No. [Lucsly](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0418012/?ref_=tt_trv_qu): Good. [Dulmur](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0088269/?ref_=tt_trv_qu): We hate those too. ---
**Author:** ![GMANCANADA](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gmancanada/32/2837_2.png) [@GMANCANADA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GMANCANADA)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/442 "2020-12-05T16:39:12Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Sure, they first traveled through time in the season 1 episode _Tomorrow is Yesterday_ , when they were drawn towards a black hole. They used warp power to break free, but the slingshot effect sent them to the 20th century. That first time was an accident, but they successfully returned to the 23rd century by flying toward the sun and using its gravity as a slingshot. I know that, for better or worse time travel has played a role in much of Star Trek, but I don’t recall them ever have such pedestrian casual mastery of it that they’d go back to “observe earth” just for shits and giggles. ISTM that this casual mastery of time travel negates every single plot in every Star Trek world going forward. “Yeah well… Spock died, but we just jumped back in time and saved him”, “Yup, the Borg attacked and destroyed Starfleet but we just zipped back in time and sent ourselves a warning of the ambush and were ready for them’”, “oh yeah, remember that planet eater that killed 4 billion beings and wiped out that solar system? yeah based on our future knowledge we just designed a weapon that would kill it then went back in time and nailed the thing before I did any damage. Easy Peezy” ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/443 "2020-12-05T17:04:12Z")
> [@GMANCANADA](#): > > “Yup, the Borg attacked and destroyed Starfleet but we just zipped back in time and sent ourselves a warning of the ambush and were ready for them’”, Oh, yeah, I forgot _First Contact_, where the Borg jump back to the 21st century and assimilate the earth, thereby preventing first contact with the Vulcans and the formation of the Federation. Picard takes the _Enterprise-E_ back in time to defeat them and aids Zefram Cochrane in testing his antimatter warp drive in the bargain. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/444 "2020-12-05T17:15:48Z")
How many “incidents” did they blame Kirk for? ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/445 "2020-12-05T17:30:24Z")
“The man was a menace!” ---
**Author:** ![GMANCANADA](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gmancanada/32/2837_2.png) [@GMANCANADA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GMANCANADA)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/446 "2020-12-05T18:34:57Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > where the Borg jump back to the 21st century But we knew that and using light-speed breakaway factor we were able to jump back first and prevent the Borg race from ever being created. 😃 OMG - Every single problem solved by the “light-speed breakaway factor” I wish could go back in time and prevent @Kaylasdad99 from starting this thread before it caused such terrible self reflection that the entire ST franchise was blown to dust. 😂 I can’t wait to see how stunningly disappointing S3 will be. 😞 ---
**Author:** ![eburacum\_45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum_45/32/3385_2.png) [@eburacum\_45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum_45)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/447 "2020-12-05T18:45:44Z")
Every kind of FTL travel should allow the ship to go back in time. These civilisations in the ST universe all have FTL time travel; they should all be locked into a constant Time War. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/448 "2020-12-05T19:10:06Z")
Don’t make me mention the Temporal Cold War from _Enterprise_. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/449 "2020-12-05T19:16:15Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Don’t make me mention the Temporal Cold War from _Enterprise_ . It’s the reason I opted out of the series with the pilot episode. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/450 "2020-12-05T19:18:10Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > > [@cochrane](#): > > > > Don’t make me mention the Temporal Cold War from _Enterprise_ . > > It’s the reason l opted out of the series with the pilot episode. Yes, the pilot did suck , but don’t worry; they went back in time and fixed it… ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/451 "2020-12-05T19:39:19Z")
> [@GMANCANADA](#): > > I know that, for better or worse time travel has played a role in much of Star Trek, but I don’t recall them ever have such pedestrian casual mastery of it that they’d go back to “observe earth” just for shits and giggles. > > ISTM that this casual mastery of time travel negates every single plot in every Star Trek world going forward. > “Yeah well… Spock died, but we just jumped back in time and saved him”, > > “Yup, the Borg attacked and destroyed Starfleet but we just zipped back in time and sent ourselves a warning of the ambush and were ready for them’”, > > “oh yeah, remember that planet eater that killed 4 billion beings and wiped out that solar system? yeah based on our future knowledge we just designed a weapon that would kill it then went back in time and nailed the thing before I did any damage. Easy Peezy” Well, to be perfectly fair, in _Assignment: Earth_, it was a key plot point that the Enterprise crew wouldn’t do anything to interfere in the past or change the course of history. Of course, they also seemed to indicate that it was ok to interfere with Gary Seven for some reason, based on the fact that he “wasn’t supposed to be there either,” which doesn’t make any sense. He was from another planet, the Enterprise was from another _time_. It all worked out ok, though. A more thorough review of their records indicated that everything that had happened in the episode, including the stuff that seemed to be a result of the Enterprise’s interference, was all exactly the way it originally happened in the timeline. Which brings up another plot hole. In _Tomorrow is Yesterday_ and _Space Seed_ (which features time travel to the future the hard way), they indicated that their records of 20th Century Earth are fragmentary, yet in _Assignment: Earth_, they seemed to have highly detailed records, down to details of Terri Garr’s character’s life. I guess maybe the “time” of that episode, historical research via time travel had become routine, and they had filled in their fragmentary records… ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/452 "2020-12-05T20:20:58Z")
Forget the time travel aspects - in Tomorrow Is Yesterday, they beamed two people INTO THEIR OWN BODIES. Aside from the outright stupidity of the whole idea, it violated the law of conservation of matter. BOOM goes the universe, all of it. Thet’s have been smarted just to beam the two of them into space. probably more humane, too. I mean, they DID kill the two of them, they just refused to consider the implications of what they did, (I refer to both the Entreprise crew, and the writers,) ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/453 "2020-12-05T20:31:57Z")
> [@GMANCANADA](#): > > ISTM that this casual mastery of time travel negates every single plot in every Star Trek world going forward. > “Yeah well… Spock died, but we just jumped back in time and saved him”, “City on the Edge of Forever” sort of made clear why you might not want to jump back in time and stop someone from dying, no matter how much you care about them. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/454 "2020-12-05T21:55:47Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Sure, they first traveled through time in the season 1 episode _Tomorrow is Yesterday_ , when they were drawn towards a black hole. They used warp power to break free, but the slingshot effect sent them to the 20th century. That first time was an accident, but they successfully returned to the 23rd century by flying toward the sun and using its gravity as a slingshot. Nope. They first traveled through time at the end of “The Naked Time” thanks to Spock figuring out some weird way of restarting the warp engines. Not very far, but before the events. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/455 "2020-12-05T22:17:28Z")
A “full power restart.” Dumping matter and antimatter together without giving them time to get to know one another. Theoretically possible, but HIGHLY discouraged due to the likely BOOM! factor. Leave it to Scotty to make it work. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/456 "2020-12-05T22:32:12Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > Well, to be perfectly fair, in _Assignment: Earth_, it was a key plot point that the Enterprise crew wouldn’t do anything to interfere in the past or change the course of history. Of course, they also seemed to indicate that it was ok to interfere with Gary Seven for some reason, based on the fact that he “wasn’t supposed to be there either,” which doesn’t make any sense. He was from another planet, the Enterprise was from another _time_. If I recall correctly, they suspected that Gary Seven was from the future (after all, he had technology that as far as they knew, didn’t exist on the Earth of the 1960s). > [@Voyager](#): > > Nope. They first traveled through time at the end of “The Naked Time” thanks to Spock figuring out some weird way of restarting the warp engines. Not very far, but before the events. The original plan was for “The Naked Time” and “Tomorrow is Yesterday” to be a two-part episode with the time travel at the end of “Naked” taking them to the storyline in “Tomorrow is Yesterday” ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/457 "2020-12-05T22:52:04Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Forget the time travel aspects - in Tomorrow Is Yesterday, they beamed two people INTO THEIR OWN BODIES. Aside from the outright stupidity of the whole idea, it violated the law of conservation of matter. Well, if you really want to go there, what about the numerous occasions in which someone shoots someone else with a phaser and they glow for the better part of a second before disappearing. No smoke, no dust, no significant rush of air, they are just not there anymore. I mean, think about it. How much energy would be released in vaporizing someone in the matter of less than two seconds? How much wide spectrum radiation? It is a massive failure of physics that they fail to account for that. Is the phaser itself sucking that all up to recharge itself? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/458 "2020-12-05T23:33:27Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > The original plan was for “The Naked Time” and “Tomorrow is Yesterday” to be a two-part episode with the time travel at the end of “Naked” taking them to the storyline in “Tomorrow is Yesterday” Not to be obnoxious, but cite? I don’t remember Mission Log mentioning this, and they are pretty good about this kind of stuff. They explained the terrible last line of “The Doomsday Machine” - “one is enough for me.” That got filmed right after “Who Mourns for Adonais” where Shatner was forced to say the one god is enough for us line. The Doomsday machine line was in revenge. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/459 "2020-12-05T23:37:55Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Forget the time travel aspects - in Tomorrow Is Yesterday, they beamed two people INTO THEIR OWN BODIES. Aside from the outright stupidity of the whole idea, it violated the law of conservation of matter. BOOM goes the universe, all of it. Not to mention that though they were traveling at high warp speeds, they were still in transporter range when beaming both Christopher and the security guard back. The security guard I didn’t think was a problem, since it seems they beamed him down right after they beamed him up. Not true for Christopher since his plane was breaking up when they saved him, which it wasn’t when they returned him. This was one of the episodes where the redo really helped. In the original, when the Enterprise was going back in time it just quivered in space, in the new one it was shown orbiting the sun which was awesome. The Enterprise in the atmosphere was also better done. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2020, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122/460 "2020-12-06T00:00:26Z")
[https://web.archive.org/web/20070604173418/http://www.fastcopyinc.com/orionpress/articles/nakedtime.htm](https://web.archive.org/web/20070604173418/http://www.fastcopyinc.com/orionpress/articles/nakedtime.htm) This link discusses the original Naled Time script which was titled “The Naked Sun, Part I” and ends with Kirk ordering the ship to Earth. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-tos/921122.md?page=24)