# Star Trek V Question **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 14, 2004, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-v-question/264373 "2004-09-14T05:14:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Odinoneeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/97f17d/32.png) [@Odinoneeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odinoneeye)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2004, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-v-question/264373/41 "2004-09-15T23:02:12Z")
The women! ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Rhosis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@Sir\_Rhosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Rhosis)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2004, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-v-question/264373/42 "2004-09-16T01:02:28Z")
Richard Arnold, one of Roddenberry’s assistants, is responsible for the whole “Gene considers this apocryphal” nonsense. He and Roddenberry’s other assistant (read Squeeze) Susan Sackett were both fired hours after GR died. Spock does indeed tell the aged ineffectual Klingon General Koord, “Damn you sir, you will try!” when Koord at first refuses to try to stop the young marauding Klingon Klaa from attacking the Enterprise. Spock, as noted, has emotions, and throughout the six movies he is shown relaxing a bit, especially after his death and rebirth, and semi-joking with McCoy and Kirk. This emotional arc reached its peak in “The Undiscovered Country,” when an enraged Spock shouts, “What you want is irrelevant! What you have chosen is at hand!” and viciously slaps a phaser out of the traitorous Val’eris’ hand. Seventy-some years later, on TNG, he practially jokes with Data, and is seen near tears when he mindmelds with Picard and learns of his late father’s love for him. Sir Rhosis ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2004, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-v-question/264373/43 "2004-09-16T01:20:12Z")
> [@](#): > > And, of course, proving that every species’ God was simply an imprisoned imp. Uh, no. What it proved was that said imprisoned imp _wasn’t_ any species’ God, just a lying imp. If I were to tell you that I’m Allah and you got your shirt torn and laid the smackdown on me, would that prove that Islam is wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2004, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-v-question/264373/44 "2004-09-16T02:46:14Z")
> [@The Long Road](#): > > I’ve always felt a certain scene in Star Trek II violates this badly. When Kirstie Alley gasps for breathe because Kirk smashes a glass panel, that just seems like an emotional response brought on by fear. But she was one cute vulcan. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2004, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-v-question/264373/45 "2004-09-16T02:50:35Z")
Yeah. After she gets plastic surgery and is transferred to the Grissom. Seriously, dude… I worry about you sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2004, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-v-question/264373/46 "2004-09-16T03:18:38Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > just a lying imp. Just a bad ass alien. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2004, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-v-question/264373/47 "2004-09-16T03:31:29Z")
I’m watching _Trekkies_ right now! We’ve got some serious catching up to do, y’all. I mean, I don’t even have a dog yet to put in his own FC style uniform. And even with all the different cons that Viva, Tracer, I, or any others here have gone to, I have yet to hear of Shatner looking worried while standing near us. Unless he’s just a better actor now and is fooling us all. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2004, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-v-question/264373/48 "2004-09-16T03:51:32Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > I’m watching _Trekkies_ right now! > We’ve got some serious catching up to do, y’all. > > I mean, I don’t even have a dog yet to put in his own FC style uniform. And even with all the different cons that Viva, Tracer, I, or any others here have gone to, I have yet to hear of Shatner looking worried while standing near us. Unless he’s just a better actor now and is fooling us all. [Some pointers can be found here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=275893) and [here.](http://www.freestyle2000.com/startrek/lcars.htm) ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2004, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-v-question/264373/49 "2004-09-16T04:12:50Z")
So… the Galaxy class Camaro runs Windows on the computer which, among other things, opens and closes the windows. Seems like a possible feedback loop just waitng to happen. And let’s not even talk about crashes! ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2004, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-v-question/264373/50 "2004-09-16T04:27:43Z")
I hate to break this to you guys, but… ST:V did indeed exist. Its full title is “Star Trek V: The Final Frontier.” It was followed by “Star Trek VI: The Apology.” ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2004, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-v-question/264373/51 "2004-09-16T04:35:04Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > I hate to break this to you guys, but… ST:V did indeed exist. Its full title is “Star Trek V: The Final Frontier.” > > It was followed by “Star Trek VI: The Apology.” This post has been **Spocked!** by the **Spocker!** ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2004, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-v-question/264373/52 "2004-09-16T04:35:29Z")
Oh yeah, [don’t forget to pick up Shatner’s new album](http://music.ign.com/articles/536/536054p1.html) when it comes out next month. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2004, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-v-question/264373/53 "2004-09-16T04:39:04Z")
[Kahn!](http://www.khaaan.com/) ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2004, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-v-question/264373/54 "2004-09-17T01:47:46Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > Oh yeah, [don’t forget to pick up Shatner’s new album](http://music.ign.com/articles/536/536054p1.html) when it comes out next month. Holy targ, that man is my hero! I don’t have any talent either, and I can only hope to be one tenth as succesful in my endeavors as he has. He is an inspiration to us all! ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2004, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-v-question/264373/55 "2004-09-17T02:54:32Z")
> [@Alan Smithee](#): > > Holy targ, that man is my hero! Who _is_ this guy? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![High\_Cheese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8797f3/32.png) [@High\_Cheese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/High_Cheese)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-v-question/264373/56 "2004-09-20T06:48:28Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > Obviously, you’ve never seen _Battlefield Earth_ or _The Star Wars Holiday Special_, those films take “bad” to a whole 'nother level. The problem with STV is that it was an interesting idea, but poorly executed. In one of the other STV threads, someone made the claim that Paramount kept cutting the budget and futzing around with everything. If true, then it’s not entirely Shatner’s fault. Ok, I know this thread has gone a week with no posting; but I forgot about it and feel I must post. I am definitely not disagreeing with you. You make some very strong, almost unarguable, assertions. At one time I really enjoyed ST IV. I ranked it just behind “Khan” as best ST film. (Nothing beats “Khan”, IMHO). That was when I was in high school, didn’t have the gift of critical thought and really enjoyed ST IV’s campyness. What intrigued me beyond the cheese was the faint drama of the crew as “renegades” having stolen the Enterprise, having intentionally destroyed the Enterprise and having been wanted basically as fugitives. The Star Trek crew criminals? Oh My! It started out with a decent premise but quickly morphed into time-travel, save the universe, get exonerated Star Trek movie X. And, of course, all the requisite narrow escapes were just so tired. What got me the most, however, was the “Spock comes alive” bit. In the beginning, when spock is retraining his mind with the computer, he quickly answers all the science and factual based questions. Then the computer asks him “how do you feel?” Spock does not know how to answer this question, being mostly non-human and the question being a derivation of human feelings. Then his human mother attempts to explain to him the nature of humanity, feelings and emotion. Spock does not get it. It left the impression that Spock had lost something both in his death and in the “transfer” and subsequent retransfer of his mind. It wasn’t the same Spock we knew and loved. Then he transforms throughout the movie and in the end makes a statement which I believe to be the second most poignant and dramatic statement in the ST series: he says to his father, “Tell her (his mother) I feel fine.” (Answering the aformentioned “how do you feel?” question). It finally…finally gave an insight into Spock’s possible humanity. It went far beyond the hard science and space-time continuum nature of ST to that date. Also, earlier in the movie, when Spock didn’t have one of the elements he needed to calculate the return trip in time, Kirk told him to use his best guess. Spock was confused, as a miscalculation would mean certain death. Bones told him that Kirk believed a guess by him to be better than anyone else’s knowledge. We finally get a concession from Spock’s natural adversary (Bones) that even though he doesn’t necessarily enjoy Spock’s logical, non-human element, he at least believes Spock to be a person of great magnitude. Another poignant moment to be sure. These two dramatic moments made the movie more meaningful and enjoyable beyond the near death escapes and campy humor. I mentioned that Spock’s “I feel fine” response was the second most poignant and dramatic of the series. The first? Kirk, at the end of “Khan” when he says, as they are about to bury Spock in space, "Of all the souls I’ve met in my travels, his was the most… (pause as Kirk chokes back tears) …_human_. This almost made me cry; though I’m quite sure I had something caught in my eye at the time. But, overall, yeah, it’s laugable schtick. You could tell the writers were running out of science and technology ideas and were searching for a change of pace. But born out of that were these funny classics: Scotty using the mouse as a microphone: “Computer…Computer.” The LDS thing. Chekov: “And Admiral, it is the Enterprise.” (referring to the aircraft carrier). P.S. Katherine Hicks is sexy. > [@](#): > > …those films take “bad” to a whole 'nother level. No, I have not seen them. Nor am I likely to. But I can’t imagine it getting any worse than [this.](http://imdb.com/title/tt0092809/) Claude Akins, Wil Wheaton (speaking of Star Trek), John Schneider!!?? You’ve got to be freakin’ kidding me. Beyond the disasterous cast, it was one of the worst scripts in the history of cinematography. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-v-question/264373/57 "2004-09-20T07:17:01Z")
> [@Angua](#): > > I’ve heard that _Battlefield Earth_ saps the will to live from people. > [@](#): > > A million monkeys with a million crayons would be hard-pressed in a million years to create anything as cretinous as “Battlefield Earth.” Best . . . movie . . . review . . . _ever!_ By Rita Kempley of the _Washington Post_. ---
**Author:** ![High\_Cheese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8797f3/32.png) [@High\_Cheese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/High_Cheese)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-v-question/264373/58 "2004-09-20T07:45:28Z")
Dang. Actually [my post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5274385&postcount=56) should have been addressed to **thwartme** and [his post.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5264510&postcount=39) ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-v-question/264373/59 "2004-09-20T20:48:08Z")
> [@High Cheese](#): > > No, I have not seen them. Nor am I likely to. But I can’t imagine it getting any worse than [this.](http://imdb.com/title/tt0092809/) > > Claude Akins, Wil Wheaton (speaking of Star Trek), John Schneider!!?? You’ve got to be freakin’ kidding me. Beyond the disasterous cast, it was one of the worst scripts in the history of cinematography. Are you _kidding?_ That movie is freakin’ _Citizen Kane_ when compared to _Battlefield Earth_ or _The Star Wars Holiday Special_. I shit you not. They are _that_ bad. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-v-question/264373/60 "2004-09-20T20:54:05Z")
Once at an SF convention I attended a really packed panel discussion on God – God in SF and, more broadly, the nature of God, the existence of God, the role of belief in God in influencing human behavior – deep stuff. At the end the panelists said they had time for just one more question. I stood up and asked, "Do you think God will ever forgive William Shatner for _Star Trek V?_ Brought the house down. (One panelist expressed a negative opinion on the question, and added that he did not believe a just and merciful God would ever forgive George Lucas for _The Phantom Menace.)_ “Excuse me . . . why does God need a starship?” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-v-question/264373.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-v-question/264373.md?page=4)