# Star Trek: Voyager **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 19, 2014, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-voyager/686473 "2014-04-19T06:35:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-voyager/686473/81 "2014-04-22T20:07:48Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I think Q giving them a boost of less than the entire journey would have been just jerkish. Obviously he COULD have sent them home at any time. I think there would be as much objection to that among fans as there was with Battlestar Galactica. 🙂 As I recall, he desired to father a child to replace the Q who did away with himself, and grudgingly, Janeway agreed to participate. It was done in the infamous Q flash, he was holding an infant, and I think he gave them a boost homewards. Does anyone recall? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-voyager/686473/82 "2014-04-22T20:09:35Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I think there would be as much objection to that among fans as there was with Battlestar Galactica. 🙂 > > As I recall, he desired to father a child to replace the Q who did away with himself, and grudgingly, Janeway agreed to participate. It was done in the infamous Q flash, he was holding an infant, and I think he gave them a boost homewards. > Does anyone recall? Now that I think on it, you’re right My point, though, is that it was silly to have Q be a recurring element in the show and also be friendly with Janeway. Either don’t use him at all, or have him loathe her as much as he pretended to loathe Picard. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-voyager/686473/83 "2014-04-22T20:19:31Z")
> [@Memory Alpha](#): > > “I want you out, but first, get rid of this bed.” > “I have no intention of getting between those Starfleet-issue sheets. They give me a terrible rash.” > “Since you won’t be getting in the bed, I wouldn’t worry about it.” Q always did something good, although he was always an asshole about it. Janeway & Company had helped him out quite a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Achren](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/898d66/32.png) [@Achren](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achren)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-voyager/686473/84 "2014-04-22T20:53:30Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I think there would be as much objection to that among fans as there was with Battlestar Galactica. 🙂 > > As I recall, he desired to father a child to replace the Q who did away with himself, and grudgingly, Janeway agreed to participate. It was done in the infamous Q flash, he was holding an infant, and I think he gave them a boost homewards. > Does anyone recall? I thought the baby thing ended up being with another Q, though Janeway was the godmother or something. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-voyager/686473/85 "2014-04-22T21:01:08Z")
> [@Achren](#): > > I thought the baby thing ended up being with another Q, though Janeway was the godmother or something. You are correct, I have no idea why Janeway’s assistance was required. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-voyager/686473/86 "2014-04-22T21:38:18Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > You are correct, I have no idea why Janeway’s assistance was required. As I recall, Q decided the Continuum needed some new blood and that Janeway was mattressable. (The latter was certainly true; I always thought she was crazy but hot.) She declined, even though it would have meant getting the crew home in, like, 5 minutes (and avoiding a lot of needless deaths), but he went on to his previous girlfriend, the Suzie Plakson Q. Their lovemaking (as visible to humans) consisted of touching fingertips for about 2 seconds, and the pregnancy was equally brief. Why Torres did not beat Janeway to death after this was never clear to me. ---
**Author:** ![nevadaexile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb8c5e/32.png) [@nevadaexile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nevadaexile)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-voyager/686473/87 "2014-04-22T21:38:20Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > You are correct, I have no idea why Janeway’s assistance was required. That’s what the crew said! Ba-Ding!😃 ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-voyager/686473/88 "2014-04-23T00:06:26Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Yeah, God did it. > :rolleyes: As seen in the pilot. It’s not my fault the Chipinhisheads didn’t believe it. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-voyager/686473/89 "2014-04-23T00:09:33Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Skald** : > > Why Torres did not beat Janeway to death after this was never clear to me. For the same reason she didn’t beat her to death before? Nah, that doesn’t really answer the question. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-voyager/686473/90 "2014-04-23T00:16:33Z")
> [@nevadaexile](#): > > Yes, it seems odd that she wouldn’t have asked any of the Q’s that she encountered for little extra “Oomph” on the voyage home. \*\*Or looked for another Caretaker. \*\* Voyager did encounter the other Caretaker, in the Season 2 episode “Cold Fire,” but she held Voyager responsible for the death of her mate. She attempted to destroy Voyager, but the crew was able to subdue her. She left Voyager alone and disappeared without sending them home. The second Caretaker was a device to change the format of Voyager because the network was initially apprehensive of the concept of a starship stranded far from home. As the network’s and the producers’ confidence in the show grew, it was decided that locating the other Caretaker and having them send Voyager home would no longer be necessary. Like Q, she was considered analogous to “The Fugitive’s” one-armed man, an easy device to end the series should cancellation loom over it. ---
**Author:** ![nevadaexile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb8c5e/32.png) [@nevadaexile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nevadaexile)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-voyager/686473/91 "2014-04-23T01:37:13Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Voyager did encounter the other Caretaker, in the Season 2 episode “Cold Fire,” but she held Voyager responsible for the death of her mate. She attempted to destroy Voyager, but the crew was able to subdue her. She left Voyager alone and disappeared without sending them home. > > The second Caretaker was a device to change the format of Voyager because the network was initially apprehensive of the concept of a starship stranded far from home. As the network’s and the producers’ confidence in the show grew, it was decided that locating the other Caretaker and having them send Voyager home would no longer be necessary. Like Q, she was considered analogous to “The Fugitive’s” one-armed man, an easy device to end the series should cancellation loom over it. That’s right. I’d forgotten about that episode. She could have least given them a “lift” halfway. For not killing her and all… ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-voyager/686473/92 "2014-04-23T13:11:51Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > But the TrekVerse is lousy with gods. Hell, a recurring element of Voyager was Janeway’s stupidly NOT asking the local god for a ride home. Battlestar Galactica was lousy with Gods. The obsession with God is a large part of what destroyed the show. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-voyager/686473/93 "2014-04-23T13:54:53Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Battlestar Galactica was lousy with Gods. The obsession with God is a large part of what destroyed the show. Amen, Brother. ---
**Author:** ![Bakhesh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Bakhesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bakhesh)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-voyager/686473/94 "2014-04-23T14:10:16Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Amen, Brother. I think you meant “so say we all” ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-voyager/686473/95 "2014-04-23T14:26:38Z")
> [@Bakhesh](#): > > I think you meant “so say we all” Frack you! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-voyager/686473/96 "2014-04-23T20:12:35Z")
7th season, like the back half of season 6, isn’t nearly as good as the show has been up to this point. What a shame. I’ve been jumping around between episodes now in search of the better ones. There have been a few gems: Critical Care, Lineage, Repentance, and the Void have all been excellent. I’ll probably wind up getting around to the series finale tonight. After that, who knows? Maybe I’ll start watching Enterprise. I’ve never seen any of it. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-voyager/686473/97 "2014-04-23T21:05:19Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Maybe I’ll start watching Enterprise. I’ve never seen any of it. Some very good, although some of the last resembles fan-fic. ---
**Author:** ![Shooby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f475e1/32.png) [@Shooby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shooby)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-voyager/686473/98 "2014-04-24T10:56:28Z")
The only Star Trek show that holds up for me nowadays is Deep Space 9. It’s the only one that has even remotely realistic and compelling characters, with plotlines and story arcs that had weight and consequence to them. There were many problems with Voyager (such as the weekly reset button, which made no sense), but lets talk about the characters. Voyager had so much potential to really humanize its cast, as the journey home could become increasingly desperate and resources increasingly scarce. Starfleet would become less of an overbearing presence, and sheer pragmatism would become ever more appealing. You could have all sorts of conflicts as characters examine what parts of their Federation identity need to be preserved, and what needs to be pushed aside in order to survive and adapt to their unique circumstances. Some would probably relish that, and some would resist. I realize that some episodes DID touch on those themes, but nothing ever lasted or changed. And that lack of growth and evolution (in the characters and their policies and actions) was incredibly disappointing - they were as dully Starfleety at the end as the beginning. It was just TNG in the Delta Quadrant. DS9, on the other hand, had a fantastic supporting cast with antagonist characters holding series-long prominence (the Vorta dude, the female changeling, Kai Winn, Gul Dukat), and many characters with conflicting motivations who were often on the other side of Team Sisko (e.g. Garak, Quark and even Kira once in a while). Sisko himself was thrown into the Bajoran religion, in a bizarre but ultimately beneficial twist that was a nice source of tension for him. DS9’s characters actually _wanted_ things, and beyond the crisis of the week, it helped define them and make them memorable. Quark wanted to become the Ferengi Warren Buffet, but was only quasi-ruthless. He also had a running power dynamic arc between him and his brother. Odo wanted to understand what he was, and where he came from, as well as come to terms with what he felt about Kira. Kira wanted desperately for Bajor to be free and safe, and wanted to make sure no one screwed that up, be they Cardassian, Federation, or even other Bajorans. Bashir wanted a fly honey (i.e. Dax), and to exercise his mental genius (e.g. cracking Garak, figuring out Section 31, etc.). Sisko was trying to just stay afloat with all the shit happening around him, and not betray the Federation or Bajoran trust, as well as raise a son. Jake, while being one of the weakest characters, at least had a consistent coming of age what-the-hell-am-I-doing-with-myself thing going, as well as the journalism arc. Even a seemingly throwaway character like Nog had HIS coming-of-age plot and the Starfleet enlistment. Kai Winn and Gul Dukat had their constant scheming and power plays, and whenever they showed up, you could see them working towards their goals every time. Shit, do you even remember what most of the characters in Voyager were striving for? The Doctor wanted to be a real boy, and this was, to Voyager’s credit, a consistent and evolving theme throughout the series. But Paris? Kim? Torres? Janeway? I literally can’t remember anything about their goals and desires other than what their job made them care about. Paris wanted to be accepted as non-fuck-up, I suppose? Chakotay wanted to get in touch with his Native Americanness… somehow? Belanna wanted to… uh, cure her PMS? Kim wanted to… grow a pair? Tuvok wanted to… perfect his constipation face? ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-voyager/686473/99 "2014-04-24T12:25:44Z")
I finished Voyager. Having watched the entire show in the span of a month or so, with hardly any memory of any of it from when I watched it as a child, has maybe given me an interesting perspective on it. The majority of seasons 4 and 5 was some of the best (non-premium) network television I’ve ever seen. Year of Hell; Mortal Coil; Living Witness; Night; Once Upon A Time; Timeless; Latent Image; Bride of Chaotica; and Equinox, for example, were all brilliant episodes. I’ve come to disagree with or just not care about many of the main complaints about Voyager (supposedly uninteresting characters, Janeway’s incompetence and disregard for the prime directive, etc). But the show clearly has serious issues. The biggest one for me is just how prevalent technomagic is in the series. The purpose of a lot of stories, whether they’re in a book or a television show, is to see a character or group of characters encounter an obstacle and then find a way to deal with that obstacle. When Bobby the Adventurer is trapped in the Dungeons of Despair we want to see how he manages to endure them and figure or fight his way out. When Jessica the Detective is investigating a tricky case we want to see what clues she uncovers and what clever solution she can come up with. We know how our own worlds work so we can guess at how their worlds work and we can gauge for ourselves how reasonable we think their attempts to overcome their obstacles are. But too often in Voyager, more than I remember from Next Generation, an obstacle is put up in front of our characters and the solution they come up with at the last minute is just some meaningless technobabble that the writers pretty arbitrarily came up with. If Denise the Engineer is the only person left on the ship and she’s being attacked by invading aliens it’s not an actual clever solution for her to say “Oh, of course! These creatures must be weak to reversed-porality photonic pulsar bursts because they’re from a omega radiation class-f planet! I’ll just sequence the plasma coil transponder nodes to send out those bursts right now!” The audience (at least this member of the audience) feels cheated by that. Technobabble bullshit is of course a core part of Star Trek (no matter how grounded in actual science the Trek nerds will claim it is) and that’s great, but only when it’s used to service the story in unobtrusive ways. Another issue is the “reset button” others have mentioned. For example: As overused as Seven of Nine is, she’s still an interesting character and I was intrigued at her potential emotional growth in the season 7 episode Human Error. But of course at the end we’re shown she has a chip that’ll kill her if she gets too emotional. We even get a reset in the middle of the fucking episode when it turns out that her change in fashion, the removal of her borg implants, etc, are all just part of a simulation. What a bunch of cowards the writers were. All in all I think Voyager is a show that had a lot of promise and for the most part I’ve really enjoyed myself. I don’t think it deserves the amount of hate it gets but it’s certainly not an “excellent” show. I feel like it could have been if it had more episodes like the ones I listed above. I’m imagining an HBO production of Star Trek with half as many episodes per season would be fantastic. I give Star Trek: Voyager three spent warp plasma coil injectors out of five. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-voyager/686473/100 "2014-04-26T03:44:10Z")
Fair review of the show and good criticisms. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-voyager/686473.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-voyager/686473.md?page=6)