# "Star Trek" vs. Harlan Ellison
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-vs-harlan-ellison/47965
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [January 1, 2001, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-vs-harlan-ellison/47965 "2001-01-01T02:51:09Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Sir\_Rhosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Rhosis)
#### Post date: [January 1, 2001, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-vs-harlan-ellison/47965/1 "2001-01-01T02:51:09Z")
For years HE has railed against the gutting his original draft of “The City on The Edge of Forever” took at the hands of the “Star Trek” writing staff, especially Gene Roddenberry.
For the most part, from what I have read and seen, I agree with Ellison, especially his assessment of Roddenberry as a third-rate hack writer, who perhaps had many fine attributes as a producer, but certainly not as a writer. A perusal of a listing of Star Trek episodes will show you that Roddenberry’s name is usually attached to the stinkers.
I also agree that writers are for the most part relegated to the bottom of the totem pole in any creative endeavor.
However, in many ways I find the aired version of “City” to be more enjoyable than HE’s version.
In more ways, HE’s version is finer.
Some points in favor of HE’s script.
1. It posits that in Roddenberry’s utopian view of the future, drugs will still plague us. The Jewels of Sound would also have been a “cool” “trippy” 60s sequence had it been filmed.
2. HE’s Edith Keeler is a far more rounded, human character. Perhaps Joan Collins’ performance, though fine, influences my thoughts. Collins’ Keeler is just so damned “chirpy” and upbeat, it seems to me.
3. HE gives Kirk and Spock an adversary (Beckwith?) to heighten the tension.
4. The “shoe” analogy conversation between Kirk and Spock on the rooftop.
5. The character of the legless WWI vetran, Trooper, and the counterpointing of this character against Edith Keeler, i. e. it does matter if Edith lives or dies, but humanity and the future will not be affected one whit when Trooper dies. A hard truth for some of us to swallow, but outside of our families, most of us JUST DON"T MATTER, we will never MAKE A DIFFERENCE.
6. Love may matter more than the universe.
7. And many more. HE is very on in his portrait of CCC camps and the despair of the times.
Points in favor of the aired version.
1. The set-up and pace is far better. We’re into our story immediately, and are back in time early in the second act. In HE’s version, Kirk, et al, explored the planet and talked with the Gaurdians (giant, old guys with beards!) forever in riddles about “blue on blue and the sun will shine brightly on it, and there the focal point shall be,” ad nauseum (not an exact quote, okay). HE’s pace was agonizingly slow.
2. HE’s Spock was just “off.” To his credit, he wrote it only after seeing the pilot and a few episodes. McCoy is barely mentioned, again the character of McCoy had not become as significant when Ellison wrote his draft.
3. The ever-growing tricorder. D. C. Fontana’s work. Gotta love it.
4. Shatner’s over-the-top style is somewhat subdued here. It really is a damn fine performance.
5. No “Space Pirates.” God, that part is painful to read. But, Ellison claims he was forced to add them. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt.
6. I must admit that I agree with the decision to make Kirk act to stop Edith from being saved. This is probably Ellison’s biggest gripe. Like I said above, it is a strong point to make that love for another human is more important than the fate of the universe, however, I hope that I would make the choice Kirk makes in the aired version. I like that Kirk, I’m not sure if I like HE’s version of Kirk, and the choice he had him make.
7. Finally, on a lighter note, Ellison’s script contains one of the worst pieces of “purple” dialogue ever written. In response to a comment about time travel/the Guardians of Forever, Kirk says something like: “I always thought such stories were the drunk stuff of lab technicians who had had too much wood grain alky,” or something to that effect. Thereafter I always imagined a good ol’ boy tech down in a hidden Engineering alcove operating a moonshine still.
Finally, along the lines of my “2001” question. Which city is “on the edge of forever”? New York or the ruined city of the guardians? I seem to recall that in HE’s version, Spock has a line referring to the crew they left back on the Guardians’ planet: “They’re waiting for us, Captain, back there in the ruined city on the edge of forever. Waiting for us to set time right.” I may be mixing in Blish’s short story version though.
Your thoughts, fellow SF and Star Trek fans. . .
Sir
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### Author:  [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)
#### Post date: [January 1, 2001, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-vs-harlan-ellison/47965/2 "2001-01-01T03:15:36Z")
Sir:
I think agree with you, for the most part. IIRC, Ellison’s “Guardians” were actually statues that spoke in riddles that were supposed to be koan-like, not just old guys. There are some positive aspects to the version that appeared, but I’d like to have seen a lot more o Ellion’s stuff on the screen.
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### Author:  [@Uniball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uniball)
#### Post date: [January 1, 2001, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-vs-harlan-ellison/47965/3 "2001-01-01T03:28:08Z")
Feh. Ellison’s laundry list is far more original and imaginative than anything that that Roddenberry hack ever created in his entire life.
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### Author:  [@Sir\_Rhosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Rhosis)
#### Post date: [January 1, 2001, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-vs-harlan-ellison/47965/4 "2001-01-01T03:40:56Z")
I agree, Uniball, though in this case, D. C. Fontana finally came clean to Ellison during his writing of his account of the episode and admitted that it was she who did the majority of the rewriting (actually, IIRC, she rewrote Steven W. Carabatsos’ and Gene Coon’s rewrites) and is responsible for most of the aired version, not Roddenberry.
Didja know Roddenberry actually had the temerity to submit his own “The Omega Glory,” one of the worst ever, for Emmy consideration, stating in his cover letter that although he was too close to the material, EVERYBODY around the Trek offices agreed that it was one of the best pieces of writing they had ever seen?
Sir
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### Author:  [@Greasyfries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greasyfries)
#### Post date: [January 1, 2001, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-vs-harlan-ellison/47965/5 "2001-01-01T04:33:24Z")
Seeing how I know nothing about Ellison’s version outside of the OP of this thread, I won’t make any detailed arguments; but, it sounds to me like Ellison’s script probably would’ve been better suited to a longer format than a one-hour TV show. Regarding the other posts in the thread, I’mof the opinion that STAR TREK succeeded in spite of Rodenberry, not because of him. All the most fascinating scripts were all by people like DC Fontana, David Gerrold, etc. I wonder what the result would’ve been if there had been a Nigel Kneale-penned episode…
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### Author:  [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)
#### Post date: [January 1, 2001, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-vs-harlan-ellison/47965/6 "2001-01-01T05:02:42Z")
I think the “space pirates” thing will be debated into eternity. It’s obvious that no one wanted to take credit for such a stupid idea.
Overall, I think Ellison’s draft was one hell of a good idea that simply missed the mark of what a Star Trek episode needed to be. As noted, there was a dynamic between Kirk, Spock and McCoy, there were budget considerations, factors involved in timing and pacing, etc., etc. That’s what series television is. If you don’t like it, go somewhere else.
I happen to be a copywriter. I’ve been doing it for a long time and I’m pretty good at it – almost always better than the people who higher me. But if I turn in a draft that doesn’t agree with a client’s corporate mission statement or doesn’t follow the corporate style manual, it’s going to get changed, if not outright rejected. I can piss and moan that my draft is better, but I’m working for someone else – I give them my best effort and they pay me for it and we go on from there.
My opinion is that if Ellison was so dissatisfied with what the final work looked like, he should have asked to have his name taken off the credits (it’s his right) and get on with his life.
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### Author:  [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)
#### Post date: [January 1, 2001, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-vs-harlan-ellison/47965/7 "2001-01-01T05:04:13Z")
That should be “people who hire me.” I may be a pretty good copywriter, but I’m a lousy proofreader.
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### Author:  [@Sir\_Rhosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Rhosis)
#### Post date: [January 1, 2001, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-vs-harlan-ellison/47965/8 "2001-01-01T05:25:59Z")
kunilou,
I need a rewrite on the second pargraph of your post, to wit. . . sorry, just kidding, couldn’t resist.
You have a valid point. Perhaps some people just should not write TV. Just wanted to respond to your final query. Ellison claims he asked that his “Cordwainer Bird” pseudonym be credited, but that Roddenberry made such powerful threats to the effect: “I’ll have every producer in town blackball you,” “you’ll never work in this town again,” etc., that he, the enfant terrible, himself, was actually cowered into leaving his name on it.
Only time I’ve ever heard Harlan admit to backing down from anyone. Usually he (in 29 page asides) explains how he beat the artichoke-brain producers into submission. Once claimed to have taken a .45 to a story conference, and began to conspicuously dismantle and reassemble it as he was asked for revisions.
Sir
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### Author:  [@Saint\_Zero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Zero)
#### Post date: [January 1, 2001, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-vs-harlan-ellison/47965/9 "2001-01-01T20:53:45Z")
I’ve read the script, and I have to agree it’s not a bad story. **But** it’s not really Star Trek. The version that made it to TV isn’t as Sci-Fi as Ellison could write, but it’s much better Trek.
Ellison is a fine SF writer, but in this case didn’t write a filmable script.
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### Author:  [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)
#### Post date: [January 1, 2001, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-vs-harlan-ellison/47965/10 "2001-01-01T21:28:21Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by kunilou \*
> **Overall, I think Ellison’s draft was one hell of a good idea that simply missed the mark of what a Star Trek episode needed to be. As noted, there was a dynamic between Kirk, Spock and McCoy, there were budget considerations, factors involved in timing and pacing, etc., etc. That’s what series television is. If you don’t like it, go somewhere else.**
Keep in mind, though, that all these scripts were being written when “Trek” was just barely off the ground, so all these writers would have had to go on was Roddenberry’s “bible” and character descriptions. (Note that in Ellison’s script, he simply refers to “the Scottish engineering officer,” not “Scotty.”) THat dynamic hadn’t been built to the extent we know it now.
Although I appreciate the moral dilemma in which Ellison places Kirk, and his resolution of it, the version that airs is saved by Nimoy’s delivery of the line, “He knows, Doctor; he knows.” God_damn_, that’s a tearjerking line! Pound for pound I prefer Ellison’s version, but those three actors gave their best in that episode. I don’t think Shatner ever acted that well again until _STII: The Wrath of Khan_.
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### Author:  [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)
#### Post date: [January 1, 2001, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-vs-harlan-ellison/47965/11 "2001-01-01T23:28:21Z")
Need a memory refresh here.
Didn’t “City on the Edge of Forever” win a Hugo award?
Was it for the draft that Ellison originally wrote, or the script that made it on the air?
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### Author:  [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)
#### Post date: [January 1, 2001, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-vs-harlan-ellison/47965/12 "2001-01-01T23:36:49Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by kunilou \*
> \*\*Didn’t “City on the Edge of Forever” win a Hugo award?
>
> Was it for the draft that Ellison originally wrote, or the script that made it on the air? \*\*
I was for Ellison’s original script.
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### Author:  [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2001, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-vs-harlan-ellison/47965/13 "2001-01-02T00:04:20Z")
I am hopelessly out of the loop. Where can I read a copy of Ellison’s original script?
I watched the Star Trek marathon on Sci Fi recently, and saw “City on the Edge” again, after not seeing it for many years. It’s a great episode.
[namedropping hijack]One of my friends wrote an episode of the old ST series. It’s interesting to hear her talk about it.[/namedropping hijack]
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### Author:  [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2001, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-vs-harlan-ellison/47965/14 "2001-01-02T01:27:02Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Sir Rhosis \*
> I must admit that I agree with the decision to make Kirk act to stop Edith from being saved. This is probably Ellison’s biggest gripe. Like I said above, it is a strong point to make that love for another human is more important than the fate of the universe, however, I hope that I would make the choice Kirk makes in the aired version. I like that Kirk, I’m not sure if I like HE’s version of Kirk, and the choice he had him make.
I agree with you here. I prefer Ellison’s version at every point, except this one. The broadcast ending has a hint of classical tragedy to it. Ellison’s is yet another story about a man sacrificing everything for love, a romantic/tragic theme.
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### Author:  [@Sir\_Rhosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Rhosis)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2001, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-vs-harlan-ellison/47965/15 "2001-01-02T04:09:29Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by yosemitebabe \*
> \*\*I am hopelessly out of the loop. Where can I read a copy of Ellison’s original script?
>
> One of my friends wrote an episode of the old ST series. \*\*
Ellison published his script and his version of the whole sordid rewrite affair in a volume aptly entitled “The Ciy on The Edge of Forever,” back in the mid-90s. It’s still on the shelves as far as I know, and was offered through the SF Book Club, I believe. The script is also available (slightly edited) in a collection entitled “Six Science Fiction Plays,” edited by Roger Elwood. The latter was published in the late-70s, is out of print, but I’ve seen copies in good-sized used bookstores.
And as to the hijack: Come on now, tell us who. I would love to know.
Sir (who once bombed in a pitch session to DS9)
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2001, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-vs-harlan-ellison/47965/16 "2001-01-02T13:39:47Z")
Somewhere around here I have a tape of HE being interviewed on an NPR show. He roundly ridicules Joan Collins. [HE in falsetto “Collins”]“I played Hitler’s girlfriend…”[/HE in falsetto “Collins”] He said she was an idiot.
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### Author:  [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2001, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-vs-harlan-ellison/47965/17 "2001-01-02T13:50:48Z")
> [@](#):
>
> I was for Ellison’s original script.
Sorry, but no. The original script has not been published when the Hugo was awarded. Since the Hugo voters are fans, they could only have seen the episode when it aired.
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### Author:  [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2001, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-vs-harlan-ellison/47965/18 "2001-01-02T14:52:52Z")
Whoops, you are correct, Chuck. The Hugo was for the televised version; the Writers Guild of America that same year awarded Ellison the “Most Outstanding Teleplay” award for his script.
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### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2001, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-vs-harlan-ellison/47965/19 "2001-01-02T17:02:32Z")
I agree that Roddenberry was a hack (and _Star Trek_ was schlock) but Ellison was (and is) a pretentious twit. Basically he submitted a script for an existing series he admits he knew nothing about and then complained when his script was altered to fit the show. Ellison has always been unable to see that he is usually as much at fault in his feuds as whomever he’s fighting with.
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### Author:  [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2001, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-vs-harlan-ellison/47965/20 "2001-01-02T19:15:40Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Saint Zero \*
> \*\*I’ve read the script, and I have to agree it’s not a bad story. **But** it’s not really Star Trek. The version that made it to TV isn’t as Sci-Fi as Ellison could write, but it’s much better Trek.
>
> Ellison is a fine SF writer, but in this case didn’t write a filmable script.\*\*
Agreed. Ellison’s “City” script could be dropped into any generic sci-fi series without too much effort – that’s why Spock and Kirk seem “off” to some people in it, because they’re not really Spock and Kirk. The core idea was fine, but overall I’d probably vote for the aired revision.
OTOH, Ellison’s script for Isaac Asimov’s _I, Robot_ is a classy piece of work. It’s a bit long and high on the budget, but given a little editing and today’s computer-animated technologies, not undoable. If only someone like Spielberg would pick it up and run with it…
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