# Star Trek vs. Star Wars **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 16, 2004, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-vs-star-wars/229559 "2004-02-16T22:24:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-vs-star-wars/229559/21 "2004-02-17T01:44:51Z")
> [@sturmhauke](#): > > Trek ships have to break orbit from a planet and move out on impulse before they can warp. Au contraire! In _Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home_, Kirk & co. went to warp-speed in the Klingon Bird of Prey while they were still in Earth’s atmosphere. ---
**Author:** ![SpaceGhostofArrakis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@SpaceGhostofArrakis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpaceGhostofArrakis)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-vs-star-wars/229559/22 "2004-02-17T02:38:17Z")
Ah, but the Dyson Sphere forced the 1701D out of warp, so unless you want to through easily explodable (not that _All_ Trek ships seem easily splodable) BoP at Imperial CapShips, you’re toast. It should be noted that if superior Hyperdive equiped vessels can’t go FTL in an interdictor field, there’s no way a fricking Warpship will. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-vs-star-wars/229559/23 "2004-02-17T02:40:40Z")
Not nececelery! Hyperdrive works by an entirely different mechanism than warp drive. It’s entirely possible that an interfictor field can nullify hyperdrives but have no effect on warp drives. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-vs-star-wars/229559/24 "2004-02-17T02:50:37Z")
[QUOTE=SpaceGhostofArrakis] Ah, but the Dyson Sphere forced the 1701 D out of warp… [QUOTE] Do you realize how massive a Dyson Sphere is and the amount of gravity it must exert? Using that as a cite to say that starships can’t travel in gravity wells is like saying a robin can’t fly because hurricaine level winds keep it grounded. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-vs-star-wars/229559/25 "2004-02-17T02:51:40Z")
> [@SpaceGhostofArrakis](#): > > Ah, but the Dyson Sphere forced the 1701 D out of warp… Do you realize how massive a Dyson Sphere is and the amount of gravity it must exert? Using that as a cite to say that starships can’t travel in gravity wells is like saying a robin can’t fly because hurricaine level winds keep it grounded. ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-vs-star-wars/229559/26 "2004-02-17T03:01:01Z")
Say, does anyone know of a message board around these parts with a bunch of nerds? 😃 I remember an almost identical subject being debated here about 4 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-vs-star-wars/229559/27 "2004-02-17T03:17:41Z")
> [@Achernar](#): > > Data versus C3PO? Seriously, I’m all about being open-minded, but come on. Are any _Star Wars_ fans going to defend **that** matchup? C3PO clearly wins in the [penis size](http://www.snopes.com/movies/films/c3po.htm) category. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-vs-star-wars/229559/28 "2004-02-17T03:24:35Z")
But is he \*fully \* functional? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-vs-star-wars/229559/29 "2004-02-17T04:05:58Z")
Neither would win. As clearly indicated in the films (and TV shows, in the case of Star Trek) Imperial vessels and soldiers are unable to hit anything smaller than a planet, while Federation ships never work correctly. The battle would therefore be an endless stalemate, with the ISD hopelessly blasting away and missing at a crippled Enterprise. ---
**Author:** ![BraheSilver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@BraheSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BraheSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-vs-star-wars/229559/30 "2004-02-17T04:21:01Z")
Bolding mine: > [@tracer](#): > > No no no no – the Enterprise-E backs up at warp 1.1 (even the old NCC-1701 was shown backing up at warp 9 in “Balance of Terror”, so warp 1.1 should be no problem), and then shoots photon torpedoes forward **(photon torpedoes typically travel at warp 9 or higher)**. > > Like backpedalling on foot while shooting at someone with a .38 special – the bullets move so much faster than you that the the tiny amount of backwards velocity you have will make very little impact on the bullets’ velocity. What?! Are you telling me that photon torpedoes are supposed to go 1,516 times the speed of light (_ST Encyclopedia_, p372)? Unless the ship firing them is itself going faster than light, we have never seen any evidence that torps go faster than light. Where did you get this? Damn you Aesiron, I was trying to tone down my geekery and you go and start this thread… ---
**Author:** ![BraheSilver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@BraheSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BraheSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-vs-star-wars/229559/31 "2004-02-17T04:23:54Z")
Rather, _I’ve_ never seen any evidence. What did I miss? ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-vs-star-wars/229559/32 "2004-02-17T04:36:59Z")
> [@](#): > > Also included in the torpedo are target acquisition, guidance and detonation assemblies and a warp sustainer unit. The latter is charged by the launching vessels own drive field at launch, boosting the torpedo speed up to Vmax = Vl + (0.75 Vl / c), where Vl is the velocity of the launching vessel. If launched at low impulse flight the torpedo will accelerate to a 75% higher sublight velocity; launch at high impulse speed will not push the torpedo into warp. If launched during warp flight the torpedo will continue at warp until the sustainer is exhausted. Torpedo range can be extended by utilizing the matter / antimatter warhead to power the sustainer, although this causes a corresponding loss of warhead yield. For a mid-range yield the torpedo can achieve ranges of some 3,500,000 kilometres at sublight speeds. > > The photon torpedo can be set to fly a ballistic trajectory, be steered by the launch vessel, can home in via its own guidance systems, or use a combination of these methods in a single flight. > [http://ditl.org/weaponry/datphoton.htm](http://ditl.org/weaponry/datphoton.htm) So, apparently, they can fly at Wap 9+ but the ship has to be going at or around Warp 9.9 to achieve those speeds. And anytime, **Brahe**. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-vs-star-wars/229559/33 "2004-02-17T04:40:38Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > The two franchises are truly light years, nay PARSECS apart. Yeah, but less than twelve. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-vs-star-wars/229559/34 "2004-02-17T05:14:17Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Neither would win. > > As clearly indicated in the films (and TV shows, in the case of Star Trek) Imperial vessels and soldiers are unable to hit anything smaller than a planet, while Federation ships never work correctly. The battle would therefore be an endless stalemate, with the ISD hopelessly blasting away and missing at a crippled Enterprise. Plus, there’s the problem of Starfleet’s infantry. Namely: it sucks. In tactics, training, and equipment. They making the Starship Troopers movie (_not_ book) look good. Away teams of starship command officers usually do better than the “redshirts,” of course, but isolated bands of swashbucklers do not an army make. I’d love to see the Yuzhan Vong go up against the Borg, though. That’d be fun to watch. ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-vs-star-wars/229559/35 "2004-02-17T05:48:06Z")
> [@](#): > > Should it ever get out of ship-to-ship combat and settle on person-to-person fighting (boarding parties or something), SW has the Trek guys completely trashed. You mean those stormtroopers that lay down rounds and rounds of blaster fire at 20 paces but miss every shot? Of course, they’d be fighting against soldiers firing phaser blasts that travel slow enough you can dodge them. What about the Ewoks vs. the Ferenghi? ---
**Author:** ![Tarrsk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/97f17d/32.png) [@Tarrsk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarrsk)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-vs-star-wars/229559/36 "2004-02-17T07:57:11Z")
> [@Monstre](#): > > You mean those stormtroopers that lay down rounds and rounds of blaster fire at 20 paces but miss every shot? > > Of course, they’d be fighting against soldiers firing phaser blasts that travel slow enough you can dodge them. If we’re just counting the hero characters, Star Wars beats Star Trek hands down. As [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=23423&) demonstrates, Chewbacca would defeat Worf without breaking a sweat. Meanwhile, you’ve got the Jedi Knights, who can not only dice their opponents to pieces, but can deflect incoming beam weapon fire and pull the guns out of their opponents’ hands. Then there’s Han Solo and Princess Leia, two sharpshooters who actually hit their targets with a fair degree of accuracy. This is quite unlike Picard and Riker (and Data, for some reason), who have been known to spend minutes on end fruitlessly shooting the rock directly in front of their target). Finally, Star Wars has R2-D2, who is essentially a walking, computer hacking swiss-army knife. Get him onto a starbase or Federation starship, and within a few minutes he’ll have disabled every terminal, door lock, and power system on board, and dug up vital information on the status of the _Millennium Falcon_ to boot. Okay, sure, so C-3PO would do little more than act annoying, ignore R2’s sage advice, and eventually get torn to pieces, but he does that on a regular basis anyway. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-vs-star-wars/229559/37 "2004-02-17T08:09:53Z")
> [@BraheSilver](#): > > What?! Are you telling me that photon torpedoes are supposed to go 1,516 times the speed of light (_ST Encyclopedia_, p372)? Unless the ship firing them is itself going faster than light, we have never seen any evidence that torps go faster than light. Where did you get this? Why, from the very same _ST Encyclopedia_ entry that you yourself just referenced! Page 357 in the 1999 edition: “ **photon torpedo.** Tactical weapon used by Federation starships. Photon torpedoes are self-propelled missiles containing a small quantity of matter and antimatter bound together in a magnetic bottle, launched at warp speed at a target. Photon torpedoes are usually the weapon of choice when a ship is at warp drive, since they are not limited by the speed of light.” [underlining mine] So, no, warp 9 was not specifically mentioned, but their FTL capabilities were. Oh, and **Aesiron**? That “Daystrom Institute” page you linked to about photon torpedoes is misquoting the _ST:TNG Technical Manual_. Vl in the photorp speed formula is the **launch velocity** of the photorp, **not** the velocity of the launching vessel. (c.f. _ST:TNG Tech Manual_, page 128.) ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-vs-star-wars/229559/38 "2004-02-17T08:15:46Z")
Well, neither the Manual nor the Institute is canon so it doesn’t really matter in the end. I just cited that as an example… anyone that’s watched the show knows that they travel at FTL velocities because they’ve been fired while at warp innumerable times. That, and my Tech Manual is a thousand miles away so I didn’t have it as a handy reference. ---
**Author:** ![flodnak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-vs-star-wars/229559/39 "2004-02-17T08:54:20Z")
> [@tracer](#): > > But I hasten to add that _Star Wars_ characters never have sex. 😛 Right, because if they did, Luke and Leia would have been the first to hop into the sack, and then Lucas would have some **serious** explaining to do :eek: :eek: :eek: 😃 ---
**Author:** ![BraheSilver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@BraheSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BraheSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-vs-star-wars/229559/40 "2004-02-17T09:02:19Z")
**tracer** , I guess we’re arguing semantics. I took “launched at warp speeds” to mean that the launcher is warping, not the launchee. If the launcher is already in warp, then the torp doesn’t immediately fall back into normal space. It’s just that on the shows the torpedoes always seem so slow. They get fired three at a time, and we see them drift towards the target. Granted, “speed of light” gets kind of bendy as it applies to science fiction (we see a phaser beam taking time to move between people 20 feet away), but I’ve never considered that photon torpedoes by themselves would reach warp speeds. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-vs-star-wars/229559.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-vs-star-wars/229559.md?page=3)