# Star Trek Warp Speeds
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-warp-speeds/123442
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [August 11, 2002, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-warp-speeds/123442 "2002-08-11T23:19:58Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)
#### Post date: [August 11, 2002, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-warp-speeds/123442/1 "2002-08-11T23:19:58Z")
Watching Star Trek this evening on TNN, a question hit me.
The Enterprise is capable of traveling at several ‘warp’ speeds - Warp 1 to Warp 9-point-something.
What prevents them from traveling at Warp 9-point-something all the time? I assume they have to worry about fuel, but has the series ever stated what the most efficient warp speed is? They seem to travel at Warp 2 most of the time, but in emergencies they use Warp 9-point-something. But occasionally they’ll use something else, like Warp 6. Any particular logic to this?
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### Author:  [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)
#### Post date: [August 11, 2002, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-warp-speeds/123442/2 "2002-08-11T23:37:28Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Any particular logic to this?
No. The various speeds are used based on the needs of the plot at the moment.
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### Author:  [@AndrewL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AndrewL)
#### Post date: [August 11, 2002, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-warp-speeds/123442/3 "2002-08-11T23:40:44Z")
Apparantly, energy needs (and presumably wear on the engine parts) increase exponentially with speed - warp 9 uses up more antimatter per light-year travelled, or something like that.
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### Author:  [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)
#### Post date: [August 11, 2002, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-warp-speeds/123442/4 "2002-08-11T23:40:57Z")
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!! 😃
Seriously though…I always assumed that the faster you go, the faster the dilithium crystals wear out, so you get better mileage if you maintain a moderate speed.
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### Author:  [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2002, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-warp-speeds/123442/5 "2002-08-12T00:32:14Z")
Star trek technology is quite often not consistant with itself, let alone the laws of physics. The basic operation of a star trek starship has many parallels with old submarines. Combine that with the fictional writing of people who may not be the wisest people on the planet with respect to the laws of physics, and keep in mind that it’s not the same person writing each episode so the characteristics of the starship can actually vary a bit. And of course if you start going too fast someone has to say “she canna take much more capn” in an appropriate scottish accent.
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### Author:  [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2002, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-warp-speeds/123442/6 "2002-08-12T01:04:14Z")
Since this is a question about a television series, I’ll move this thread to Cafe Society.
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### Author:  [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2002, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-warp-speeds/123442/7 "2002-08-12T01:17:13Z")
In TOS, a warp was the square of the speed of light
Warp one = C
Warp two = C_C
Warp three = C_C\*C
etc.
They also had a limit of warp nine; the concept was that it was the top speed if you opened the throttle all the way. In TNG, they upped the limit a bit.
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### Author:  [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2002, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-warp-speeds/123442/8 "2002-08-12T01:21:06Z")
Did they lower if for _Enterprise_? You know, to make that long road a little longer for gettin’ from there to here…
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### Author:  [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2002, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-warp-speeds/123442/9 "2002-08-12T01:25:00Z")
\
My TOS technical manual places Warp speed as the **cube** of the number.
Therefore Warp 1 is C
Warp 2 is 8_C
Warp 3 is 27_C
up to Warp 9 which is 729\*C
\
Sorry about that.
That’s clearly inconsistent with TNG because early in the series someone says they’re travelling at ‘half-impulse’ and Riker mentions that as being 3 times C. There have clearly been some changes made to the scale but I don’t have a NextGen technical manual here.
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### Author:  [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2002, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-warp-speeds/123442/10 "2002-08-12T01:28:49Z")
Are you sure it was three times C, Johnathan? I remember hearing that Voyager went at half the speed of light at full impulse, and if memory serves, it was a faster ship than the Enterprise. Maybe it was 1/3 C? I know that it has been established that warp 1 is the speed of light.
And as for the reason that the speed varies has something to do with the fact that in TNG and all subsequent series (except Enterprise) the Federation put a “speed limit” on it’s ships of warp 6, since it was found that high warp speeds damage sub-space, so higher warp speeds were saved for emergencies.
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### Author:  [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2002, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-warp-speeds/123442/11 "2002-08-12T01:38:56Z")
I’m pretty certain that Riker says, “3 times light speed” in that sequence. But I’ll go back and check. It’s a bridge scene in the second season somewhere. And early episode, I think.
Of course, we’re looking for consistency where there may be none.
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### Author:  [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2002, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-warp-speeds/123442/12 "2002-08-12T02:01:49Z")
As others have said, all the Star Trek series have played fast and loose with their science.
But basically, a warp drive is supposed to work not by newtonian physics (i.e. it doesn’t ‘push’ the ship thru space) but by folding or ‘warping’ space itself. A common analogy is to think of space as a piece of paper. You create a fast shortcut by folding it on itself. The matter/anti-matter stuff is what’s used to generate the enormous energy it requires to warp space. So the engines still have to work harder to make the ship go faster.
Also, this from [startrek.com](http://www.startrek.com): _Each increase of one warp is computed geometrically. Warp ten is theorized to be infinite and with current technology, unobtainable._
In the current series **Enterprise** (which takes place _before_ the 60s series) they’ve got engines which can only generate enough power to reach warp 5.
In the original **Kirk/Spock** series ships could cruise pretty much indefinately at warp 6. They could reach a maximum speed of warp 8 but only for a limited time (before me engines blow apart!!!)
In an episode of **The Next Generation** they introduced a ‘speed limit’ of warp 5 because it was discovered that speeds over that were ‘polluting’ the space time continuom. This wasn’t really science. It was just a thinly veiled tree-hugger episode.
In **Star Trek: Voyager** (ick!) their ship was of a new design which gave a hoot, and didn’t pollute above warp 5 and which could also reach a maximum speed of warp 9.975 for limited times. Unfortunately U.S.S. Voyager also seems to have a lot of lead in its food replicators because everyone on board is an idiot.
As I said the writers don’t sweat the details but this stuff does have some basis in theoretical physics. Pretty good for a 1960s TV show.
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### Author:  [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2002, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-warp-speeds/123442/13 "2002-08-12T04:24:51Z")
Claiming that _Star Trek_ is internally inconsistent is a valid complaint; claiming that it’s inconsistent with the laws of Physics is not. Just by going Warp 1 they’ve violated them. But even its internal consistency is not that bad. In the three original _Star Wars_ movies alone there are more inconsistencies than in all of _Star Trek_, and there are what, 600 episodes of that?
But anyway, yes, I agree with **Jonathan Chance** about Warp speeds. It’s always (at least since TNG) the cube of the number, until you get to 10. Instead of being Warp 10 = 1000c, it’s infinity. This is not a smooth function, and not something that would be done in real life, but it’s not terribly counter-intuitive. I seem to recall that TOS did not follow the convention, but that Warp 9 has always been regarded as “really really fast”. The explanation was that somewhere in the 80 years between the first two series, the scale was redefined. _Enterprise_, though, is so far more consistent with TNG rules than TOS rules.
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### Author:  [@Enola\_Straight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Straight)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2002, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-warp-speeds/123442/14 "2002-08-12T05:17:00Z")
TOS/ENTERPRISE warp scale: Warp FactorX=Xc^3
TNG/DS9/VOY warp scale: Warp FactorX=X(c^3\*c^1/3)
Warp 10 undefined…like a Tan function.
Past warp 10 is Transwarp: Transwarp FactorX=X(c^4\*c^1/4)
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### Author:  [@diku](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/diku)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2002, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-warp-speeds/123442/15 "2002-08-12T05:23:04Z")
In the TNG episode where Picard is trying to put together the DNA strands to solve the puzzle of their origin(bad description), they do many Warp 9 jumps. At the end of the show, it was mentioned that the ship had to go to a Starbase for reconditioning because of the multiple jumps. So maybe you can get to speed once with no problem, just don’t keep doing it.
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2002, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-warp-speeds/123442/16 "2002-08-12T11:30:58Z")
This is a classic Your Milage May Vary thread.
**Tucker** was right, though. The speeds are either:
[ul][li]Fast enough to arrive just in time.[/li][li]Not quite fast enough to arrive in time (forcing the away team to solve their own damn problems).[/li][li]Irrelevant. [/li][/ul]
The worst example I ever saw was in a novel called “War Drums”. The _Enterprise-D_ gets yanked away for some stupid diplomatic mission and can’t get back in time to rescue the away team from the giant tidal wave created by the massive earthquake. Guess what? The warring factions must now _work together_ to survive. Oy.
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### Author:  [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2002, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-warp-speeds/123442/17 "2002-08-12T11:37:18Z")
> [@](#):
>
> That’s clearly inconsistent with TNG because early in the series someone says they’re travelling at ‘half-impulse’ and Riker mentions that as being 3 times C.
I find this the result of a mistaken memory, because just about every other mentioning of impulse speeds puts it at decidedly less than the speed of light. For example, in the TNG episode _Arsenal of Freedom_, the Enterprise entered a planet’s atmosphere at 1/4 impulse… that would be 1.5 times the speed of light if half impulse were 3C. The shockwave from such an entry would have decimated the planet’s surface and created a fireball that would have engulfed the Enterprise… yet in the episode, we see a small flaring of the shields that barely obscure the ship.
Clearly, Impulse power is nowhere near the speed of light.
As for Warp… in the TNG episode _Bloodlines_, it’s mentioned that Warp 9 would travel 300 billion kilometers in 20 minutes. That translates to about 830C. And let’s not forget the good ol’ episode _Where None Have Gone Before_, where Geordi states that it would take three centuries to travel 2.7 million lightyears, which comes out to about 9000C.
In _Encounter at Farpoint_, it’s mentioned that the Enterprise’s maximum Warp is 9.3, although 9.5 is available for short bursts.
(Note: All this information is taken from Mike Wong’s Propulsion index, here: [http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/index.html](http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/index.html) )
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### Author:  [@Smitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smitty)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2002, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-warp-speeds/123442/18 "2002-08-12T12:39:34Z")
In TNG’s last episode, “All Good Things”, doesn’t the “future” Riker mention something about his ship being able to travel at Warp 15?
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### Author:  [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2002, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-warp-speeds/123442/19 "2002-08-12T13:19:20Z")
I think I remember that.
Yes, Warp 15: getting you there before you were born in _any_ parrallel dimension.
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### Author:  [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2002, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-warp-speeds/123442/20 "2002-08-12T13:35:31Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Smitty \*
> \*\*In TNG’s last episode, “All Good Things”, doesn’t the “future” Riker mention something about his ship being able to travel at Warp 15? \*\*
Plus it had 3 warp nacells\* if my memory was right- plus some upgraded phasers they used on the Klingons.
[ST Nerd] Of course now the future Enterprise should look different as all of the Upgraded Voyager goodies should have been implemented. [/ST Nerd]
- “But this one goes to 11!”
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