# Star Wars A New Hope, Obiwan taking Luke on a suicide mission? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 27, 2011, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-a-new-hope-obiwan-taking-luke-on-a-suicide-mission/607559 "2011-12-27T20:41:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-a-new-hope-obiwan-taking-luke-on-a-suicide-mission/607559/81 "2012-01-04T21:18:25Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I think we’re missing the greater point if you’re now questioning what street the Jedi HQ is on. They have incredibly close access to the Republic government and know Republic bigwigs on a personal basis. Working Jedi are used as Republic diplomats and agents. This is not some fringe monastery. Right, which is why the leaders of the Alliance, who were members of the Senate back when that meant something, absolutely accept the idea of the Force and the powers of the Jedi. Han was not a part of the Republic government. He was a kid on a planet that, as far as I’m aware, was largely untouched by war. He knows who the Jedi were, and he knows they claimed to have supernatural powers, but he’d never seen it first hand, and he grew up in a world where the government line branded the Jedi as frauds and traitors, and probably carried some pretty hefty penalties for anyone who talked about them too fondly. Note, also, that Han’s prejudice isn’t particularly deep. By the end of the movie, he tells Luke, in apparent sincerity, “May the Force be with you.” At this point, he still hasn’t seen any concrete evidence of the Force, other than Luke’s training session with the remote. I suspect that, until he met Luke and Ben, he’d never bothered questioning the “official” things he’d learned about the Jedi, because it had never mattered before. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-a-new-hope-obiwan-taking-luke-on-a-suicide-mission/607559/82 "2012-01-04T23:01:40Z")
Should we really take the musings of a Sith Mod at face value? :dubious: 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-a-new-hope-obiwan-taking-luke-on-a-suicide-mission/607559/83 "2012-01-05T00:42:04Z")
You will if you know what’s good for you. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-a-new-hope-obiwan-taking-luke-on-a-suicide-mission/607559/84 "2012-01-05T02:52:44Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > First of all, remeber that Anakin wanted Luke to have his lightsaber when he was old enough (but if Anakin is Vader and he thinks the fetus is dead then how could then doesn’t this contadict ep. 3? :eek: ). . I think you’re reading that too literally, I see it more like “the Anakin who was like a brother to me would have wanted you his son to have this, I know he would have”. My mother once told me “your grandmother would have been so proud of you if she was here to see you, I know she would have” but my grandmother died before I was born so how could my mother have known that? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-a-new-hope-obiwan-taking-luke-on-a-suicide-mission/607559/85 "2012-01-05T03:14:28Z")
> [@dzeiger](#): > > Originally Posted by RickJay > I again have to point out that an advanced, large, multicultural society is going to have a media. The absence of a collective memory in Star Wars is every bit as unbelievable as anything else I’ve mentioned. > > But this isn’t just a multicultural society, this is an intergalactic society–and the best interstellar transmissions we saw were crappy, static-y black-and-white holograms that can’t even handle an asteroid field. > > It seems entirely plausible that even that technology was mostly limited to government/military use under the Republic (and certainly under the Empire), so someone on Corellia isn’t just going to be turning the video monitor to see a live correspondent with the day’s news from Coruscant. > > Sci-fi/Space Fantasy almost never really handles communications issues well.. [http://i36.tinypic.com/259zkwl.jpg](http://i36.tinypic.com/259zkwl.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![dzeiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/46a35a/32.png) [@dzeiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dzeiger)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-a-new-hope-obiwan-taking-luke-on-a-suicide-mission/607559/86 "2012-01-05T05:41:14Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Even if intersteller phone service is restricted to military or official use only, that doesn’t stop any old tramp frieghter from carrying news (disk, print, electronic data) and porn from port to port while it brings in it’s regular cargo. And Han of all people knows quite well how much one should trust news reports from tramp freighter captains. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-a-new-hope-obiwan-taking-luke-on-a-suicide-mission/607559/87 "2012-01-05T15:30:01Z")
> [@dzeiger](#): > > And Han of all people knows quite well how much one should trust news reports from tramp freighter captains. I’m not talking about cantina chit chat. I’m talking about data disks. Do you think that there’s such a booming market for news that various freighter captains are going to create fake stuff to sell? How do you think news got around historically, before the telegraph? Through traders. (And pilgrims, soldiers, and so on.) 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-a-new-hope-obiwan-taking-luke-on-a-suicide-mission/607559/88 "2012-01-05T15:31:37Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > I’m not talking about cantina chit chat. I’m talking about data disks. Do you think that there’s such a booming market for news that various freighter captains are going to create fake stuff to sell? > > How do you think news got around historically, before the telegraph? Through traders. (And pilgrims, soldiers, and so on.) 🙂 And ship captains and travelers made shit up _all the time_, too. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![dzeiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/46a35a/32.png) [@dzeiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dzeiger)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-a-new-hope-obiwan-taking-luke-on-a-suicide-mission/607559/89 "2012-01-05T16:37:53Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > I’m not talking about cantina chit chat. I’m talking about data disks. Do you think that there’s such a booming market for news that various freighter captains are going to create fake stuff to sell? > > How do you think news got around historically, before the telegraph? Through traders. (And pilgrims, soldiers, and so on.) 🙂 And if I’m a tramp freighter captain and I have a choice of carrying data disks full of news, and data disks full of porn or other entertainment, which do you think is going to be more profitable for me to sell? It doesn’t really matter that the Jedi Temple is in the middle of Coruscant. Those guys just meditate in chambers and advise politicians–there’s going to be very little interesting “news” coming from there that would result in the average galactic citizen to have to acknowledge the Force is real. The flashy stuff comes from full-on war zones or underworld crime areas where reports are going to be fragmented and unreliable by nature. Or, presumably, they will come from entertainment programs that are probably as faithful to Jedi reality as Hollywood is to ninjas–so hardly surprising that someone with a good dose of skepticism or cynicism in them would doubt the reports of what people could do twenty years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-a-new-hope-obiwan-taking-luke-on-a-suicide-mission/607559/90 "2012-01-05T17:55:24Z")
> [@dzeiger](#): > > And if I’m a tramp freighter captain and I have a choice of carrying data disks full of news, and data disks full of porn or other entertainment, which do you think is going to be more profitable for me to sell? No question at all: the news. A planet can manufacture its own porn. It can’t manufacture accurate information about other planets. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-a-new-hope-obiwan-taking-luke-on-a-suicide-mission/607559/91 "2012-01-05T18:05:46Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > No question at all: the news. A planet can manufacture its own porn. It can’t manufacture accurate information about other planets. But then the question becomes, who is interested in that? News networks have a hard enough time making people care about news that happens across an ocean. Who’s going to give a shit when it’s happening on another planet across the galaxy? ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-a-new-hope-obiwan-taking-luke-on-a-suicide-mission/607559/92 "2012-01-05T18:24:14Z")
They can clearly broadcast voice and rudimentary images real time over insterstellar distances. But think about how much news there is to keep track of on just our planet, let alone millions of worlds across the galaxy. You would need something like the controlled demolition of Alderaan to actually make the intergalactic headlines. > [@Saint Cad](#): > > I guess I didn’t make myself clear. During the 19 years Luke was growing up drinking blue milk, Obi-Wan was afraid he would turn Luke into another Darth. But like a true Jedi, when it hit the fan he balls up and does his job. > But even in your quote, Obi doesn’t say he wants to train Luke. He needs to train Luke because he is getting too old. The question remains - train him to do what exactly? Be the Last Jedi and go off and get himself killed or turned to the Dark Side? Obi Wan did his job in that when he had an opportunity to deal a significant blow to the Empire, he took advantage of it. IOW, going off on a mission to get the Death Star plans to the Rebellion. He reluctantly let Luke come along, but how much Jedi shit did he actually teach him? A couple of practice swings with a lightsaber on the Millenium Falcon during the long flight from Tatooine? Some back story about the Jedi Knights, Clone Wars and the rise of the Empire that any third grader from Corruscant would know? He didn’t even tell Luke who he was or what his potential could be. All Obi Wan did was give Luke the equivalent of a katana to use as a Swiss Army Knife and told him where to find a teacher after he was already dead. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-a-new-hope-obiwan-taking-luke-on-a-suicide-mission/607559/93 "2012-01-05T18:35:57Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > … He reluctantly let Luke come along, but how much Jedi shit did he actually teach him? A couple of practice swings with a lightsaber on the Millenium Falcon during the long flight from Tatooine? Some back story about the Jedi Knights, Clone Wars and the rise of the Empire that any third grader from Corruscant would know? He didn’t even tell Luke who he was or what his potential could be. > > All Obi Wan did was give Luke the equivalent of a katana to use as a Swiss Army Knife and told him where to find a teacher after he was already dead. Yet Vader in Empire and Return keeps saying “Obi-Wan trained you well.” Luke barely met Obi-Wan. The standard training montage was with Yoda. It was during that time when Luke was developing that the Emperor sensed his existence as a disturbance in the force. Perhaps that is why they didn’t train him. ---
**Author:** ![dzeiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/46a35a/32.png) [@dzeiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dzeiger)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-a-new-hope-obiwan-taking-luke-on-a-suicide-mission/607559/94 "2012-01-05T21:40:00Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > No question at all: the news. A planet can manufacture its own porn. It can’t manufacture accurate information about other planets. “Look, buddy, I understand that the religious council that makes the laws on this planet recently outlawed Wookie-on-Twi’lek porn. So I don’t have any of that. But I _do_ happen to have this holorecording of the recent Senate debates concerning the grain tariff proposals for the Tarsal sector. I think you’ll like it \” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-a-new-hope-obiwan-taking-luke-on-a-suicide-mission/607559/95 "2012-01-05T21:43:31Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > how much Jedi shit did he actually teach him? A couple of practice swings with a lightsaber on the Millenium Falcon during the long flight from Tatooine? Some back story about the Jedi Knights, Clone Wars and the rise of the Empire that any third grader from Corruscant would know? He didn’t even tell Luke who he was or what his potential could be. > > All Obi Wan did was give Luke the equivalent of a katana to use as a Swiss Army Knife and told him where to find a teacher after he was already dead. Got to give the guy points for talking Luke through that womp-rat bombing run, though. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-a-new-hope-obiwan-taking-luke-on-a-suicide-mission/607559/96 "2012-01-05T21:43:48Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Yet Vader in Empire and Return keeps saying “Obi-Wan trained you well.” He wouldn’t have known about Yoda. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-a-new-hope-obiwan-taking-luke-on-a-suicide-mission/607559/97 "2012-01-05T22:37:43Z")
> [@dzeiger](#): > > "Look, buddy, I understand that the religious council that makes the laws on this planet recently outlawed Wookie-on-Twi’lek porn… Wow. Rule 34 really is universal! ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-a-new-hope-obiwan-taking-luke-on-a-suicide-mission/607559/98 "2012-01-05T22:58:54Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > He wouldn’t have known about Yoda. but he _knew_ obi wan was dead at that point. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-a-new-hope-obiwan-taking-luke-on-a-suicide-mission/607559/99 "2012-01-05T23:03:52Z")
> [@simster](#): > > but he _knew_ obi wan was dead at that point. But he didn’t know how long Obi-Wan had been training Luke before he died. Remember, Vader’s training began at 10 and that was considered late by Jedi standards. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-a-new-hope-obiwan-taking-luke-on-a-suicide-mission/607559/100 "2012-01-06T03:29:00Z")
Exactly. For all Vader knew Obi had been training Luke since he was a toddler. Which just means that “trained you well” is no longer a compliment, but some snarky sarcasm! Just watch all the shit Jedi did in the prequels and you realize that Luke was a complete poser of a Jedi. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-a-new-hope-obiwan-taking-luke-on-a-suicide-mission/607559.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-a-new-hope-obiwan-taking-luke-on-a-suicide-mission/607559.md?page=6)