# Star Wars A New Hope, Obiwan taking Luke on a suicide mission? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 27, 2011, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-a-new-hope-obiwan-taking-luke-on-a-suicide-mission/607559 "2011-12-27T20:41:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-a-new-hope-obiwan-taking-luke-on-a-suicide-mission/607559/101 "2012-10-10T15:49:01Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Just watch all the shit Jedi did in the prequels and you realize that Luke was a complete poser of a Jedi. As Jabba figured out in about 10 seconds. Did not help him much. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-a-new-hope-obiwan-taking-luke-on-a-suicide-mission/607559/102 "2012-10-10T16:05:49Z")
Well, between Luke and Jabba, who came out of it alive, and who was strangled and had his floating barge blown up? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-a-new-hope-obiwan-taking-luke-on-a-suicide-mission/607559/103 "2012-10-10T16:20:14Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Well, between Luke and Jabba, who came out of it alive, and who was strangled and had his floating barge blown up? _“It’s over, Jabba! I have the high ground!”_ ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-a-new-hope-obiwan-taking-luke-on-a-suicide-mission/607559/104 "2012-10-10T16:33:42Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > A good question is, why the hell did’nt Vader discover the twins in about 10 minutes, the boy is on Vader’s _home planet_ and the girl is with a prominent senator and is apparently _strong in the force_. That actually makes a sort of sense to me. Anakin had just lost the only two people he loved\*: his best friend had “betrayed” him, and he himself had murdered his own wife. Add to that that he was trapped in a monstrous cyborg body. I doubt he _wanted_ to know that Padme’s babies survived. Denial is powerful; he could easily have convinced himself that any intimations he received via the Force were mistaken. A better question might be why the Emperor didn’t track down the twins. - With some regret I am ignoring the _Clone Wars_ series. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-a-new-hope-obiwan-taking-luke-on-a-suicide-mission/607559/105 "2012-10-10T16:55:46Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > That actually makes a sort of sense to me. Anakin had just lost the only two people he loved\*: his best friend had “betrayed” him, and he himself had murdered his own wife. Add to that that he was trapped in a monstrous cyborg body. I doubt he _wanted_ to know that Padme’s babies survived. Denial is powerful; he could easily have convinced himself that any intimations he received via the Force were mistaken. > > A better question might be why the Emperor didn’t track down the twins. > > - With some regret I am ignoring the _Clone Wars_ series. Yeah, I can see Vader simply not being human enough any more to care. It’s possible the emperor knew about the poorly-hidden Luke Skywalker but not about Leia, and was keeping this info back to use at a future date if necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-a-new-hope-obiwan-taking-luke-on-a-suicide-mission/607559/106 "2012-10-10T16:59:40Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Yeah, I can see Vader simply not being human enough any more to care. It’s possible the emperor knew about the poorly-hidden Luke Skywalker but not about Leia, and was keeping this info back to use at a future date if necessary. It’s not so much that I think Vader was so inhuman he didn’t care. It’s that he was still human enough that he didn’t want to know. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-a-new-hope-obiwan-taking-luke-on-a-suicide-mission/607559/107 "2012-10-10T17:15:18Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > That actually makes a sort of sense to me. Anakin had just lost the only two people he loved\*: his best friend had “betrayed” him, and he himself had murdered his own wife. Add to that that he was trapped in a monstrous cyborg body. I doubt he _wanted_ to know that Padme’s babies survived. Denial is powerful; he could easily have convinced himself that any intimations he received via the Force were mistaken. > > A better question might be why the Emperor didn’t track down the twins. > > - With some regret I am ignoring the _Clone Wars_ series. Oye, the Clone wars show is made of awesome, glad I started watching it. I agree, it would make sense for Palpy to tie up loose ends wrt to Anakin Skywalker, even if he did not suspect that the child had survived. Sending a minion to investigate the status of Vaders only relatives would be appropriate. There is an excellent EU novel, **Death on Naboo** which deals very directly with this question and gives a somewhat plausible explanation. Lets just say Ben Kenobi is not totally sitting on his ass intertrilogy. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-a-new-hope-obiwan-taking-luke-on-a-suicide-mission/607559/108 "2012-10-10T17:25:51Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > I agree, it would make sense for Palpy to tie up loose ends wrt to Anakin Skywalker, even if he did not suspect that the child had survived. Sending a minion to investigate the status of Vaders only relatives would be appropriate. “This isn’t the Skywalker you’re looking for.” ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2012, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-a-new-hope-obiwan-taking-luke-on-a-suicide-mission/607559/109 "2012-10-11T05:59:24Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > The question is why Obi-Wan did not start training Luke sooner. First of all, remeber that Anakin wanted Luke to have his lightsaber when he was old enough (but if Anakin is Vader and he thinks the fetus is dead then how could then doesn’t this contadict ep. 3? :eek: ). Also, Uncle Owen made Kenobi a persona-non-grata in Luke’s life. It could be cultural morality or Kenobi’s personal morality but it seemed to overrule the idea that Obi-Wan train Luke as a Jedi. Plus I always got the idea that Obi-Wan felt he messed up with Darth and indirectly caused the death of the Jedi Order and helped the Empire so he was reticent about taking on a new pupil. Based on the prequels, I would retcon the new hope plot as thus. Ben Kenobi was not there to train luke in the ways of the force, but to make sure that he did not go darkside. Had he wanted to train Luke, it would have been trivially easy to wave hand and have owen and beru say yeah, thats a great idea luke, why not. They held off on letting Luke apply for the academy, poor farmers to be sure, but for all we know, owen simply could have been a cheapskate and not hired. Luke is a good pilot, able to transition into an xwing within a few months, with only the T-65 as training ship, that alone should have meant that had he gone to the academy, he would have come to some one’s attention. The jedi themselves, obviously not big on having someone join up, beyond a certain birthdate, Ben would have seen the wisdom of that, with Anakin, and now he is supposed to train a very much older candidate in the ways of the force. First thing Luke does, after picking up the light saber is point the business end at his face. The droids arrive on planet, Kenobi gets called back to the colors and think what the heck, point the imperials at owen and beru and let nature take its course. Luke is now motivationally primed to fight the empire and has no ties remaining, that might have given him sober council. Declan ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2012, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-a-new-hope-obiwan-taking-luke-on-a-suicide-mission/607559/110 "2012-10-11T06:56:39Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > They held off on letting Luke apply for the academy, poor farmers to be sure, but for all we know, owen simply could have been a cheapskate and not hired. Perhaps Kenobi was handwaving that away, so to speak. The Academy obviously operates out in the open, so it’s not a part of the Rebel Alliance. The Empire may even recruit some of its pilots from the Academy. Had Luke gone, his flying skills would surely have been noticed, and might have attracted the attention of the Empire. Obi-Wan wanted to prevent that. He probably hit Lars with the Jedi mindfuck and said “you’re a cheap bastard who will do everything possible to keep Luke from going away.” ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2012, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-a-new-hope-obiwan-taking-luke-on-a-suicide-mission/607559/111 "2012-10-11T07:20:53Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Perhaps Kenobi was handwaving that away, so to speak. The Academy obviously operates out in the open, so it’s not a part of the Rebel Alliance. The Empire may even recruit some of its pilots from the Academy. Had Luke gone, his flying skills would surely have been noticed, and might have attracted the attention of the Empire. Obi-Wan wanted to prevent that. He probably hit Lars with the Jedi mindfuck and said “you’re a cheap bastard who will do everything possible to keep Luke from going away.” I think the academy is the imperial academy, its never actually said , but I cant see the imps plucking the creme of their starfighter corp out of a third party flying school. Declan ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2012, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-a-new-hope-obiwan-taking-luke-on-a-suicide-mission/607559/112 "2012-10-11T08:10:14Z")
I don’t think it necessarily follows that Obi-Wan knew about the Death Star until he, rather startled, said, “That’s no moon… it’s a space station.” Why would he? It had just been built. The government is a military dictatorship; probably no problem keeping secrets. And Leia didn’t mention the Death Star in her plea. “Information vital to the survival of the Rebellion”, is what she said. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2012, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-a-new-hope-obiwan-taking-luke-on-a-suicide-mission/607559/113 "2012-10-11T08:50:50Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > I think the academy is the imperial academy, its never actually said , but I cant see the imps plucking the creme of their starfighter corp out of a third party flying school. > > Declan I thought of that, that it might be akin to West Point or Annapolis, except that Luke says he hates the Empire. I doubt he’d be so anxious to get there if it meant a career as a military pilot. And in the deleted scene with Biggs, who has just come back from the Academy, he confides to Luke that he plans to join the rebellion before the Empire can draft him. Are there any other references in the Star Wars 'verse to how the Empire recruits for its military? All the stormtroopers are clones. Fighter pilots could be as well, I don’t think we ever see one unmasked. Officer ranks seem to be unique individuals, though. I wonder if they could fill those positions with an all-volunteer force. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2012, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-a-new-hope-obiwan-taking-luke-on-a-suicide-mission/607559/114 "2012-10-11T09:48:28Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I thought of that, that it might be akin to West Point or Annapolis, except that Luke says he hates the Empire. I doubt he’d be so anxious to get there if it meant a career as a military pilot. And in the deleted scene with Biggs, who has just come back from the Academy, he confides to Luke that he plans to join the rebellion before the Empire can draft him. > > Are there any other references in the Star Wars 'verse to how the Empire recruits for its military? All the stormtroopers are clones. Fighter pilots could be as well, I don’t think we ever see one unmasked. Officer ranks seem to be unique individuals, though. I wonder if they could fill those positions with an all-volunteer force. Hating the empire, but hating being stuck on Tataoonie even more? In the EU, Naval officers and Starfighter Pilots are taken from several different service academies, Han is a former Imperial officer (I think even the original novelisation states that). The recent renovelisation (post prequel) states flatly that Owen stopped him for going for this reason. Even the Empire is not blind enough to miss that one of their new recruits is named Skywalker. ---
**Author:** ![Uther\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Uther\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uther_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2012, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-a-new-hope-obiwan-taking-luke-on-a-suicide-mission/607559/115 "2012-10-11T21:41:07Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > In the EU, Naval officers and Starfighter Pilots are taken from several different service academies Just wanted to note that I initially parsed that as “In the European Union …” Cognitive dissonace ensued. (Yes, i know what was meant.) ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2012, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-a-new-hope-obiwan-taking-luke-on-a-suicide-mission/607559/116 "2012-10-11T21:56:30Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > The recent renovelisation (post prequel) states flatly that Owen stopped him for going for this reason. Even the Empire is not blind enough to miss that one of their new recruits is named Skywalker. What, there’s a fucking Special Edition of the book now? How many planets are there in the Empire, and how many people on each planet? There can’t be just one Skywalker. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2012, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-a-new-hope-obiwan-taking-luke-on-a-suicide-mission/607559/117 "2012-10-11T21:57:24Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > What, there’s a fucking Special Edition of the book now? > > How many planets are there in the Empire, and how many people on each planet? There can’t be just one Skywalker. You think Skywalker is the Star Wars equivalent of Smith? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2012, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-a-new-hope-obiwan-taking-luke-on-a-suicide-mission/607559/118 "2012-10-11T22:09:17Z")
IIRC, the deleted scene from _Star Wars_ with Biggs, Biggs says something about him and another pilot jumping ship to go join the Rebellion. Wookipedia has this quote: “I made some friends in the Academy. One of them has a friend who he thinks can put us in touch with the Rebel Alliance. We’re going to jump ship in one of the central systems and join the Alliance.” …but I can’t tell if that’s from the deleted scene, or something in the EU. The talk of “jumping ship” males it sounds like they’re talking about going AWOL, which implies that they’re talking about an Imperial military academy that they’ve joined specifically to learn to be fighter pilots, with the goal of cutting out as soon as they get their commission to join the other side. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2012, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-a-new-hope-obiwan-taking-luke-on-a-suicide-mission/607559/119 "2012-10-11T22:17:52Z")
> [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](#): > > You think Skywalker is the Star Wars equivalent of Smith? It could be. No one bats an eye when Luke introduces himself. “‘Skywalker’, is that Bespinian? How do you spell it?” For that matter, is Smith all that common on a global scale? How about Chang, or Kim? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-a-new-hope-obiwan-taking-luke-on-a-suicide-mission/607559/120 "2012-10-12T02:25:16Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > IIRC, the deleted scene from _Star Wars_ with Biggs, Biggs says something about him and another pilot jumping ship to go join the Rebellion. Wookipedia has this quote: > > “I made some friends in the Academy. One of them has a friend who he thinks can put us in touch with the Rebel Alliance. We’re going to jump ship in one of the central systems and join the Alliance.” > > …but I can’t tell if that’s from the deleted scene, or something in the EU… Pretty close to the deleted scene: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5aIQlJ0v-w](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5aIQlJ0v-w) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-a-new-hope-obiwan-taking-luke-on-a-suicide-mission/607559.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-a-new-hope-obiwan-taking-luke-on-a-suicide-mission/607559.md?page=7)