# Star Wars biggest plotholes **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 15, 2005, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444 "2005-06-15T21:20:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/101 "2005-06-17T14:48:18Z")
> [@delphica](#): > > This is not really a plot hole, but more like an unanswered question. Okay, you know what? It’s not even a question, it’s just something that cracked me up. > > In the most recent movie, Yoda gives some long speech to Anakin about how it’s wrong for a Jedi to miss anyone. Life moves on, people leave, people die, Jedi get over it, blah blah blah. > > Later, when taking his leave of the Wookies, Yoda pops out with “I’ll miss you, Chewie!” I realize it’s probably just a figure of speech, but it seemed to me to be merely a way of saying Chewie’s name just in case the audience hadn’t figured out that he was in fact Chewbacca. Actually, that was an interesting speech Yoda gave him. He basically said, “don’t get attached to anyone because attachment brings jealousy, and jealousy brings greed.” It was quite the downer thing to say. I thought it was a little of George Lucas’ personality coming through. The Jedi might be “good” but “Love” certainly doesn’t seem to figure into their philosophy. You’d have to say that the deep attachment that Anakin felt for Padme was the dominant factor in his being turned. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/102 "2005-06-17T17:06:37Z")
> [@HPL](#): > > In that case, why does Han mention “It’s the fastest ship in the fleet” just prior to the battle of Endor. A fast hyperdrive isn’t going to help much in assulting the death star. That’s a good point. Perhaps it’s because the rest of the rebel fleet is pokey in the extreme? ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/103 "2005-06-17T17:11:52Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > Next, we have one old dude, sneaking around in the bowels of a giant space station, deactivating the tractor beam, and nobody looked down at their console and said, “Hey Bob! I’ve got this little symbol in the taskbar on my PC, what’s it mean? Is this the one that says somebody’s shut off the tractor beam? We probably ought to get someone down there to check it out, before Vader hears about it and chokes us.” That would bother me more if it weren’t part of the generally lax security on the DS. Heck, simple retinal/fingerprint scanners on every door and there’s no WAY they’re rescuing Leia. Anyhow, I sort of got the impression that the idea was that if R2 had just hacked into the computers and turned off the tractor beam directly, they would have noticed, which is why Obi Wan had to go to the special place. It was not just the tractor-beam-turn-off place, it was the tractor-beam-turn-off-so-no-one-notices place, which is protected by not guards, or a locked door, but by massive vertigo. > [@](#): > > Also, _why_ was Leia looking up Kenobi to get him to run the plans to her daddy? I don’t think she was. She was on a diplomatic mission to alderaan, bringing the plans herself. Then she got captured, realized she was near Tatooine, and remembered that her dad had at one point said “There’s a powerful guy who is on our side on Tatooine, if the situation ever arises”, so, as a last resort, put the plans in the droids and sent them down. (At which point, of course, the imperials could have blasted them into smithereens, but didn’t bother, as there were no life signs on that pod, and goodness knows, the imperials are VERY careful about not wasting blaster fire.) ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/104 "2005-06-17T17:29:53Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > (At which point, of course, the imperials could have blasted them into smithereens, but didn’t bother, as there were no life signs on that pod, and goodness knows, the imperials are VERY careful about not wasting blaster fire.) This alone has got to be the biggest plothole ever. No droids reaching Tatooine, no Obi-Wan, no Luke, no…sheesh. No story. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/105 "2005-06-17T17:36:26Z")
> [@HubZilla](#): > > It was just jarring hearing the word “Democracy” on another planet, that’s all. I know they have to use English so the movie audience understands it, but it seemed too specific a term in an alien world. Was it any more jaring than the word “Senate?” What should they have said? “Space Votes?” Although, oddly enough, I do agree that it was jarring to hear. I can’t put my finger on why, though. Possibly because it was the first time we’d ever heard it in five movies, and now all of a sudden they’re talking about it like its the One Ring. Speaking of which: > [@](#): > > Like Gimli using “nervous system” in a The Two Towers. Pulled me right out of the movie. Yeah, that happened to me, too, but in this case, it was because the concept of a nervous system is relatively modern. A medieval society like the ones in Middle Earth should still be thinking about physiology in terms of bodily humors and the like, not nerve endings and neuro-transmitters. I recall someone else on the boards having a problem with the line, “Looks like meat’s back on the menu, boys!” in _Two Towers_, because when the hell is an orc ever going to have seen a _menu_? But the concept of governance through consent of the governed is implicit in the Star Wars universe from the moment Vader says the Emperor has dissolved the Senate. The concept clearly must exist in that universe, and it needs to have a name. What else can they call it? ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/106 "2005-06-17T18:04:34Z")
I think the term “Democracy” is so jarring in the flick, because we’re used to hearing the term “Repbulic” in the movies. Had the line been, “So this is how our republic dies.” we probably wouldn’t have thought twice about it, but since Lucas is still using ScriptDroid 1.0 we got crap. Another thing, how does Vader know that Padme squeezed out her pups before she kicked off? Because that’s the only reason you’d want to go to a lot of effort to hide the kids, if Vader knew that they were out there. Otherwise, he’s going to be too busy throttling Admirials to be bothered looking for kids that “might” exist. I kind of get the impression that Vader was a bit of a workaholic father, ya know? I mean, he couldn’t even be bothered to take his freakin’ wife to the doc’s for an ultrasound! And he never apologized to Luke for missing things like his high school graduation or Leia’s. Heck, he didn’t even say he was sorry for whacking Ben! Also, Jimmy Smits is a rather tan fellow, Carrie Fisher’s a bit pale. One would think that her childhood would be filled with her going,“Dad are you _sure_ I’m yours? I mean, I’m so white, and you _always_ look like you’ve been to the tanning bed. What’s up with that?” ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Carnage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/max_carnage/32/12775_2.png) [@Max\_Carnage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Carnage)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/107 "2005-06-17T18:05:46Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > It was not just the tractor-beam-turn-off place, it was the tractor-beam-turn-off-so-no-one-notices place, which is protected by **not guards** , or a locked door, but by massive vertigo. C’mon, there were TWO guards, Tag and Bink, at that site. They just happened to be discussing the new 2005 Mustangs and also have severe ADD which OB1 exploited. ---
**Author:** ![straight\_man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straight_man/32/3027_2.png) [@straight\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straight_man)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/108 "2005-06-17T18:38:15Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > Because the Falcon would probably be the equivalent of a boghammer or cig boat. If you take the Enterprise booking it at 50 knots at top speed flat out , the smaller boat would still be booking around 70 knots. I’m ashamed to say that my Jane’s guide to modern warships isn’t available to me right now :(, but I’m pretty sure the Big E can only get 30-35 knots, somewhere in there. Your standard frigate is looking at about 25 knots, quite a bit less. By the time you’re looking at patrol boats or minesweepers, it’ll be anywhere between 15 and 25. I sincerely doubt that boghammers or cig boats are any faster. There ain’t nothin’ out there, short of a hydrofoil, getting 70 knots. The Falcon is a civilian (space)ship. That tends to lower speed even more (less technology available, size of load can be more important than speed, there’s usually less money available for any given ship, etc.). Since Solo is a smuggler, the falcon is fast, but think for a moment. There’s minimal friction in space. How big an object you’re pushing will in this case decrease acceleration, not maximum speed. A star destroyer, as someone pointed out before, is a ridiculously big object. However, that means more space for propulsion, and just as a nuclear reactor takes more space than a conventional engine but increases power output to more than make up the difference, it’s not at all unlikely that a star destroyer can fit an engine that will power it to greater speeds. Discussing the maximum speed of nonexistent/fictional spacecraft, MAN this is fun. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/109 "2005-06-17T18:49:05Z")
Once again, don’t forget fields of fire. It’s actually easier to fly a fighter _close_ to a Star Destroyer than it is to fly _far_ away. Only one or two turrets able to bear at a time, after all. When was Han trying to escape a Star Destroyer, anyhow? The scene where he winds up dumping himself with the trash? ---
**Author:** ![Sweetums](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Sweetums](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sweetums)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/110 "2005-06-17T19:05:58Z")
> [@Trunk](#): > > Actually, that was an interesting speech Yoda gave him. > > He basically said, “don’t get attached to anyone because attachment brings jealousy, and jealousy brings greed.” > > It was quite the downer thing to say. I thought it was a little of George Lucas’ personality coming through. > > The Jedi might be “good” but “Love” certainly doesn’t seem to figure into their philosophy. > > You’d have to say that the deep attachment that Anakin felt for Padme was the dominant factor in his being turned. Yep, one of the major themes of Star Wars (eps 1-3 at least): romantic love is an express ticket to the dark side. ``` Love between a father and son however, is instant redemption even after being a mass murderer. Lucas has some MAJOR issues with women it seems. ``` ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/111 "2005-06-17T19:19:24Z")
> [@Sweetums](#): > > Yep, one of the major themes of Star Wars (eps 1-3 at least): romantic love is an express ticket to the dark side. > > ``` > Love between a father and son however, is instant redemption even after being a mass murderer. > > Lucas has some MAJOR issues with women it seems. > > ``` You know, I’m wondering if Lucas didn’t have a workaholic father that he was mad at when he made the first movie, then by the time he got to the third film, they’d patched up their differences, but since Lucas went through a divorce by that point, he’d started down the path of the misogynistic side of the force (it’s like the dark side, but it leans more toward the left ;)). It’d explain a few things. Other things: When Luke finds out that Ben knew his father, Luke get’s all excited, but doesn’t bother to ask, “Did you know my mommy, too?” Luke doesn’t ask about her until the last movie. Almost like he had _some_ memories of his mother, but unless you buy into the whole “CGI babies can use the Force to remember things” argument, it doesn’t add up. Next, why didn’t Owen simply _adopt_ Luke? If daddy’s the baddest mofo in the galaxy, makes more sense to raise the kid as your own, and _not_ tell him he’s the loinal fruit of a mass murderer. Less chance of him going out and joining up with dad that way. Plus, with having a _different_ last name, it’ll make it that much harder for Vader to find him. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/112 "2005-06-17T19:36:38Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > Another thing, how does Vader know that Padme squeezed out her pups before she kicked off? I don’t think that he does. In the end of Episode III, at Padme’s funeral, she still looks pregnant. Vader thinks his kids died with her. > [@](#): > > Because that’s the only reason you’d want to go to a lot of effort to hide the kids, if Vader knew that they were out there. Otherwise, he’s going to be too busy throttling Admirials to be bothered looking for kids that “might” exist. I don’t think giving the one kid to Vader’s stepbrother on his home world, and the other to the most prominent dissenting voice in the Senate, counts as “a lot of effort.” > [@](#): > > Also, Jimmy Smits is a rather tan fellow, Carrie Fisher’s a bit pale. One would think that her childhood would be filled with her going,“Dad are you _sure_ I’m yours? I mean, I’m so white, and you _always_ look like you’ve been to the tanning bed. What’s up with that?” Maybe Bail’s wife is really pale. Like, transparent. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/113 "2005-06-17T19:56:02Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > This alone has got to be the biggest plothole ever. No droids reaching Tatooine, no Obi-Wan, no Luke, no…sheesh. No story. Maybe the guys manning the star destroyer guns are better trained then the stormtroopers? ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/114 "2005-06-17T19:59:05Z")
> [@HPL](#): > > Maybe the guys manning the star destroyer guns are better trained then the stormtroopers? \*Everybody \* can shoot better than the stupid stormtroopers. Sometime I’m going to pull out the movies and write down each and every time stormtroopers have a clear shot and miss completely, yet complete novices pick up a gun and hit dead on. I’ve never fired a real gun and I’m 100 % positive that if I tried I would win in a shootout with a stormtrooper. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/115 "2005-06-17T20:13:01Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > \*Everybody \* can shoot better than the stupid stormtroopers. Sometime I’m going to pull out the movies and write down each and every time stormtroopers have a clear shot and miss completely, yet complete novices pick up a gun and hit dead on. > > I’ve never fired a real gun and I’m 100 % positive that if I tried I would win in a shootout with a stormtrooper. I often wondered where that particular genetic clone defect came from. Jango Fett was a pretty damn good shot - hitting Zam with that Kamino dart from a few hundred yards, picking off that Jedi on Geonosis with his holstered weapon, hitting the rhino-looking thing right between the eyes… ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/116 "2005-06-17T20:16:02Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I don’t think that he does. In the end of Episode III, at Padme’s funeral, she still looks pregnant. Vader thinks his kids died with her. Of course, however, we don’t really know that since Vader just asked about Padme and then did his Peter Boyle routine at the end of RotS. One would think that he’d think to ask if they were able to save the kid(s), since us monkeys without hyperdrive can save premies, they’d be able to do the same thing, but then again, they apparently don’t have ultrasounds, so who knows? > [@](#): > > I don’t think giving the one kid to Vader’s stepbrother on his home world, and the other to the most prominent dissenting voice in the Senate, counts as “a lot of effort.” For the Lucasverse? That’s a freakin’ Engima machine, man! > [@](#): > > Maybe Bail’s wife is really pale. Like, transparent. Or Lucas could be a hack. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/117 "2005-06-17T20:48:12Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > Of course, however, we don’t really know that since Vader just asked about Padme and then did his Peter Boyle routine at the end of RotS. One would think that he’d think to ask if they were able to save the kid(s), since us monkeys without hyperdrive can save premies, they’d be able to do the same thing, but then again, they apparently don’t have ultrasounds, so who knows? Ask who? The Emperor? If they’re not telling Vader, they sure as hell aren’t telling Palpy. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/118 "2005-06-17T21:27:54Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Ask who? The Emperor? If they’re not telling Vader, they sure as hell aren’t telling Palpy. How about Jar Jar? He knows everything. My point wasn’t so much that Palpy would have an answer, but that a father/husband surely would think to ask about the children. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/119 "2005-06-17T21:28:48Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Ask who? The Emperor? If they’re not telling Vader, they sure as hell aren’t telling Palpy. And on the contrary, if “Palpy” knew, he certainly didn’t want Anakin knowing. Think about it…after seeing all three it seems one of the largest reasons Anakin followed Palpy anyway was he’d burned all his bridges. There was no other place to go. How might that have changed if there was a child? No, it was in Palpy’s best interests for Darth not to know. How about 20 years later, when Palpy tries to get Luke for his apprentice? Does it not occur to Anakin in the least…“Hey this happened 20 years before. Dooku got old, Palpy threw him over, all Sith apprentices kill their masters, maybe he’s trying to be pre-emptive again?” Anyway, even after 20 years Darth succumbs to the siren call of fatherly duty and throws over (literally) Palpy. So Palpy would certainly not have told him there was a child. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/120 "2005-06-17T21:52:20Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > And on the contrary, if “Palpy” knew, he certainly didn’t want Anakin knowing. Think about it…after seeing all three it seems one of the largest reasons Anakin followed Palpy anyway was he’d burned all his bridges. There was no other place to go. How might that have changed if there was a child? No, it was in Palpy’s best interests for Darth not to know. Good point. > [@](#): > > How about 20 years later, when Palpy tries to get Luke for his apprentice? Does it not occur to Anakin in the least…“Hey this happened 20 years before. Dooku got old, Palpy threw him over, all Sith apprentices kill their masters, maybe he’s trying to be pre-emptive again?” Anyway, even after 20 years Darth succumbs to the siren call of fatherly duty and throws over (literally) Palpy. So Palpy would certainly not have told him there was a child. I think the Sith master/apprentice relationship is pretty much based around the idea of mutual betrayal. The Sith master constantly tests his apprentice by getting other dark force users to try to kill him. Whoever survives gets to be the apprentice, ensuring that the most powerful available candidate is serving the Dark Side. At the same time, the apprentice is constantly on the look out for the opportunity to betray and kill his master, because if he can do it, his master is by definition too weak to be a Sith Lord. There is no element of trust in the relationship. I suspect Sith scorn the concept of trust itself as a weakness. Palpatine almost says as much in Jedi: “Your faith in your friends is [your weakness]” Don’t trust any body, is the Sith teaching. They will fail you, or betray you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444.md?page=7)