# Star Wars biggest plotholes **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 15, 2005, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444 "2005-06-15T21:20:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/121 "2005-06-17T21:59:31Z")
> [@](#): > > I often wondered where that particular genetic clone defect came from. Jango Fett was a pretty damn good shot - hitting Zam with that Kamino dart from a few hundred yards, picking off that Jedi on Geonosis with his holstered weapon, hitting the rhino-looking thing right between the eyes… The stormtroopers in the original Star Wars movies aren’t clones of Jango Fett. (There is no Jango Fett, by the original canon, and that’s the only thing I go by - I consider the prequels to be analogous to the Apocrypha.) The stormtroopers are regular people who are recruited by the Empire and trained at a military academy. Notice how some stormtroopers have different voices? They’re different people, not clones. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/122 "2005-06-17T22:04:51Z")
> [@Dooku](#): > > I often wondered where that particular genetic clone defect came from. Jango Fett was a pretty damn good shot - hitting Zam with that Kamino dart from a few hundred yards, picking off that Jedi on Geonosis with his holstered weapon, hitting the rhino-looking thing right between the eyes… I personally think the reason the Stormtroopers can’t hit is because they are conscripts, not clones. The Clones were quite good(or maybe I’m thinking of the ARC troopers from the cartoon), the stormtroopers suck in comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/123 "2005-06-17T22:10:34Z")
> [@Argent Towers](#): > > The stormtroopers in the original Star Wars movies aren’t clones of Jango Fett. (There is no Jango Fett, by the original canon, and that’s the only thing I go by - I consider the prequels to be analogous to the Apocrypha.) > > The stormtroopers are regular people who are recruited by the Empire and trained at a military academy. Notice how some stormtroopers have different voices? They’re different people, not clones. Then why did Lucas intentionally have Jango Fett bump his head as he was climbing into the Slave I in AOTC, implying that the Clone troopers got some of his faults too when one bumped his head in Star Wars? From IMdb: > [@](#): > > The scene where Jango Fett hits his head on the closing door of the Slave I wasn’t only an homage to a stormtrooper’s scene in Star Wars (1977). George Lucas has stated that it meant to imply that the Imperial stormtroopers, being altered clones of Jango Fett, have also inherited some of his faults as well. ---
**Author:** ![HubZilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@HubZilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HubZilla)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/124 "2005-06-17T22:16:54Z")
In ESB, why did Luke leave the safety of the Wampa cave, rather than go out in that blizzard? ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/125 "2005-06-17T22:30:34Z")
> [@HubZilla](#): > > In ESB, why did Luke leave the safety of the Wampa cave, rather than go out in that blizzard? Another good one. I always wondered. I thought maybe it was because he didn’t want anything to be attracted to the body and come eat him, too, but: a) Whatever it was could have eaten the body and not luke. b) And I got the idea no creatures were out in the cold, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/126 "2005-06-17T22:37:43Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I don’t think she was. She was on a diplomatic mission to alderaan, bringing the plans herself. Then she got captured, realized she was near Tatooine, and remembered that her dad had at one point said “There’s a powerful guy who is on our side on Tatooine, if the situation ever arises”, so, as a last resort, put the plans in the droids and sent them down. That’s how I understand it. The thing I’m wondering about now is, Leia was raised as a princess, she was entrusted with the information about Obi-wan, possibly the last living Jedi, and his super secret whereabouts. If Leia was that big in the rebellion, and trusted with that information, did she also know why Obi-wan was hiding on this particular planet, and who Luke was? It’s a minor nit, but at some point when they were sitting around during one of their trips between planets, might not this conversation have occured? Leia: “So, I hear your father was quite the bad-ass Jedi, before that evil Vader killed him.” “Yeah, I guess.” “So how old are you?” “Eighteen standard Republic years.” “Really, so am I. So what date were you born?” “Hm, in Republic, it would have been… June 22.” “No shit! That’s my birthday! We could practically be brother and sis… :eek:” ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/127 "2005-06-17T22:57:55Z")
> [@](#): > > Then why did Lucas intentionally have Jango Fett bump his head as he was climbing into the Slave I in AOTC, implying that the Clone troopers got some of his faults too when one bumped his head in Star Wars? Lucas did this for one of the prequels - which are swill, and which I do not accept as Star Wars history - as I explained before. If you want to accept Lucas’s vision as canon, go ahead, it’s all open to interpretation just like the Biblical scriptures. The story of “Davin Felth,” in “Tales From The Mos Eisley Cantina (1995)” describes young men being recruited by the Empire and trained at a military academy to become stormtroopers, pilots and walker crew. And it’s a hell of alot more interesting of a story than saying “they’re all clones.” During the 90s there was a tremendous amount of interesting and creative Star Wars material in the form of comics, novels and even the role-playing game, all of which I spent my fifth through sixth grades devouring, being the withdrawn loner I was then. Even at that age I had great appreciation for the creative minds writing this great fiction - Tales from Mos Eisley, Tales from Jabba’s Palace, Bounty Hunters, the Dark Horse comics - and that’s what I accept as being the true history of Star Wars. Lucas came crashing down on that vision with the crappy new prequels and I was so closely connected to Star Wars from my childhood that I absolutely despise him for it and have no interest nor respect for the prequels. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/128 "2005-06-17T23:01:52Z")
Hey, and even if they were all clones, why would they have been cloned from a clumsy man who bumps his head so much that it’s part of his genetic code? ---
**Author:** ![BMax](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bmax/32/4267_2.png) [@BMax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMax)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/129 "2005-06-17T23:48:15Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > That’s how I understand it. The thing I’m wondering about now is, Leia was raised as a princess, she was entrusted with the information about Obi-wan, possibly the last living Jedi, and his super secret whereabouts. If Leia was that big in the rebellion, and trusted with that information, did she also know why Obi-wan was hiding on this particular planet, and who Luke was? It’s a minor nit, but at some point when they were sitting around during one of their trips between planets, might not this conversation have occured? > > Leia: “So, I hear your father was quite the bad-ass Jedi, before that evil Vader killed him.” > “Yeah, I guess.” > “So how old are you?” > “Eighteen standard Republic years.” > “Really, so am I. So what date were you born?” > “Hm, in Republic, it would have been… June 22.” > “No shit! That’s my birthday! We could practically be brother and sis… :eek:” Basil Organic tells Yoda that he & his wife will raise the girl as their own daughter. So Leia grew up believing that she really was the loinfriut (I love that word) of Jiminy Smits and…I don’t know, Gwen Stefani? Tori Amos? The glass woman of Alberan? The Snow Queen of Hoth? Or perhaps she grew up believing she was the daughter of her mother and that pale-skinned chauffer… ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2005, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/130 "2005-06-18T00:07:22Z")
> [@Argent Towers](#): > > Hey, and even if they were all clones, why would they have been cloned from a clumsy man who bumps his head so much that it’s part of his genetic code? Yeah, the martial arts experts and active military types I’ve met **never** banged their heads/limbs unexpectedly. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2005, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/131 "2005-06-18T00:24:27Z")
> [@Argent Towers](#): > > Lucas did this for one of the prequels - which are swill, and which I do not accept as Star Wars history - as I explained before. If you want to accept Lucas’s vision as canon, go ahead, it’s all open to interpretation just like the Biblical scriptures. The story of “Davin Felth,” in “Tales From The Mos Eisley Cantina (1995)” describes young men being recruited by the Empire and trained at a military academy to become stormtroopers, pilots and walker crew. And it’s a hell of alot more interesting of a story than saying “they’re all clones.” So you consider the first three movies and a bunch of comics, novels and role-playing games as the true canon? But not the three prequels? OK. I imagine this entire thread is rather maddening for you then. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2005, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/132 "2005-06-18T00:36:48Z")
> [@HubZilla](#): > > In ESB, why did Luke leave the safety of the Wampa cave, rather than go out in that blizzard? Good question. THe only thing I can think of is: Otherwise Han wouldn’t have found him. It’s weak but the only thing I can think of. My question is: What did Han build the shelter out of? Snow and Tauntaun guts? ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2005, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/133 "2005-06-18T00:37:15Z")
Yes, because all that third-party fiction came _before_ the prequels. Even if it’s “officially” Star Wars history, because Lucas says so. The comics and novels, because they were paper media and not films, could not rely on special effects and so they had to get by on the stregnth of their storytelling - guys like Timothy Zahn and Kevin J. Anderson added far more to the Star Wars universe than any of the three prequels. Anyone here who’s read any of it will know what I mean (I doubt anyone here will have, although you never know.) Yes, the thread is rather maddening for me. Anything involving the prequels is maddening for me. I know you’re probably slightly biased, if your username is any indication, so like I said, interpret the SW universe however you please. The thread, though is about plotholes - most of which were created by the prequel trilogy’s sloppy story. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2005, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/134 "2005-06-18T00:45:06Z")
I always felt the Head-bumping thing was a nod to fans and nothing more. There is no evidence at all that he Stormtroopers are clones. The only link anyone has been able to come up with is “Jango bumps his head on the door and so does that one trooper in episode 2”. Yeah, but Jango was somewhat more intelligent and a better shot then the average trooper as well. I would say that’s far more evidence againest them being clones of him. That and the stormtroopers sound different, while all the clones sound like Jango. There’s also plenty of EU stuff that says the stormtroopers are not clones. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2005, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/135 "2005-06-18T00:47:32Z")
Sorry, should be “That one trooper in ep 4” ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2005, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/136 "2005-06-18T00:57:45Z")
**HPL** , I think that the point of showing various troopers with their helmets off, in RotS was to establish that all of them _were_ clones. Between TPM and AotC Lucas made a comment about them switching to clones because the droids were such lousy shots. (Uh, yeah, like the clones were any better! :rolleyes: ) It’s stupid, I’ll admit, but much of the prequels have been. ---
**Author:** ![BigDummy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee59a6/32.png) [@BigDummy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigDummy)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2005, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/137 "2005-06-18T01:22:07Z")
My guess would be that while they were intially all clones, during the 20 years between ROTS and ANH they started adding conscripts in along with clones. Cheaper to draft somebody than to grow him, I’d think. So by ANH, there was some variety. Also, sometime during that period they lost the original source DNA and had to start cloning from the clones. You know, copy of a copy not being as sharp and all. Leads to more head-bumping and bad aim. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2005, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/138 "2005-06-18T01:33:05Z")
> [@BigDummy](#): > > My guess would be that while they were intially all clones, during the 20 years between ROTS and ANH they started adding conscripts in along with clones. Cheaper to draft somebody than to grow him, I’d think. So by ANH, there was some variety. Possibly, but if you’ll recall from AotC, they were pretty much grown on the sly, so they can’t be exactly pricey. Also, when you factor in things like salary, health benefits, death benefits (gotta pay the widows _something_ while you pimp them as having a martyred hubbys who died for the regime), etc, etc, etc., people probably cost more than clones. > [@](#): > > Also, sometime during that period they lost the original source DNA and had to start cloning from the clones. You know, copy of a copy not being as sharp and all. Leads to more head-bumping and bad aim. Now _that_ I can buy, especially since Quality Control generally seems to be lacking in totalitarian regimes. Next question: Palpy says that the Sith “shall rule the galaxy again.” When did they do it the first time? ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2005, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/139 "2005-06-18T03:16:28Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > Next question: Palpy says that the Sith “shall rule the galaxy again.” When did they do it the first time? Approximately 4000 years before the Empire came into being. The Sith were basically just like the Empire: militant fascists led by Dark Force users. I believe in that time they were actually a race, though, instead of a collection of different systems like the Empire. They’re more or less covered in the Knights of the Old Republic RPG. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@The\_Hook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hook)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2005, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/140 "2005-06-18T03:30:49Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > Possibly, but if you’ll recall from AotC, they were pretty much grown on the sly, so they can’t be exactly pricey. Also, when you factor in things like salary, health benefits, death benefits (gotta pay the widows _something_ while you pimp them as having a martyred hubbys who died for the regime), etc, etc, etc., people probably cost more than clones. Clones age too quickly, as evidenced in Episode II. Producing a regular clone would be costly, too. All those diapers and Gerber. Not to mention that it probably meant not to alter them at all, resulting in Boba Fett all over the Empire. A badass clone, just not a loyal one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444.md?page=8)