# Star Wars biggest plotholes **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 15, 2005, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444 "2005-06-15T21:20:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2005, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/141 "2005-06-18T03:43:15Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > **HPL** , I think that the point of showing various troopers with their helmets off, in RotS was to establish that all of them _were_ clones. Between TPM and AotC Lucas made a comment about them switching to clones because the droids were such lousy shots. (Uh, yeah, like the clones were any better! :rolleyes: ) It’s stupid, I’ll admit, but much of the prequels have been. Look, no one is arguing that they aren’t clones in the prequels. That much is obvous from the mid-point of Ep 2. The fact is, there is little to no evidence that the troopers in Ep’s 4-6(20 years later) are clones. The original trilogy shows that there are enough differences between storm and clone troopers, which even lucas’s magic crayons can’t change. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2005, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/142 "2005-06-18T03:54:57Z")
> [@HPL](#): > > Look, no one is arguing that they aren’t clones in the prequels. That much is obvous from the mid-point of Ep 2. The fact is, there is little to no evidence that the troopers in Ep’s 4-6(20 years later) are clones. The original trilogy shows that there are enough differences between storm and clone troopers, which even lucas’s magic crayons can’t change. Come on, man, this is **Lucas** we’re talking about here! I have **no doubt** that the whole concept of the stormtroopers being clones didn’t enter into his head until he hacked out the prequels, but given his whole retcon mentality, he’ll no doubt claim that he _intended them all along to be clones_ and will no doubt point to Leia’s “Aren’t you a little short to be a stormtrooper?” comment as proof of this. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2005, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/143 "2005-06-18T04:31:24Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > Come on, man, this is **Lucas** we’re talking about here! I have **no doubt** that the whole concept of the stormtroopers being clones didn’t enter into his head until he hacked out the prequels, but given his whole retcon mentality, he’ll no doubt claim that he _intended them all along to be clones_ and will no doubt point to Leia’s “Aren’t you a little short to be a stormtrooper?” comment as proof of this. Yeah, I know all about Lucas’s Magic Crayons. I don’t buy the “way I originally intended”(evidenced the differences between the DVD’s and the Special editions-not to mention the infamous Greedo shooting). But just because we are now at war with EastAsia doesn’t mean we have always been at war with EastAsia, Lucas to the contrary. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2005, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/144 "2005-06-18T04:37:00Z")
In the EU, it is established that it takes 10 years to successfully grow a sane clone. I suppose the movies take precedence over the books, but considering it at least used to be the line that anything in the EU was offically canon… ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2005, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/145 "2005-06-18T04:59:03Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > In the EU, it is established that it takes 10 years to successfully grow a sane clone. I suppose the movies take precedence over the books, but considering it at least used to be the line that anything in the EU was offically canon… In AotC, the cloners state that they managed to accelerate the process by the same amount. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2005, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/146 "2005-06-18T05:12:30Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > In AotC, the cloners state that they managed to accelerate the process by the same amount. Up the speed caused by a ysalmiri-induced force bubble (which is what, six weeks?) Honestly, I’ve seen AotC once and have endeavored to block all of it from my mind since. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2005, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/147 "2005-06-18T06:35:07Z")
> [@eustachian≠fallopian](#): > > I’m ashamed to say that my Jane’s guide to modern warships isn’t available to me right now :(, but I’m pretty sure the Big E can only get 30-35 knots, somewhere in there. Your standard frigate is looking at about 25 knots, quite a bit less. By the time you’re looking at patrol boats or minesweepers, it’ll be anywhere between 15 and 25. I sincerely doubt that boghammers or cig boats are any faster. There ain’t nothin’ out there, short of a hydrofoil, getting 70 knots. The US Navy has always been rather vague about what their nuke ships will top out at , however in this case , I used the E as an example because while Janes will agree with what you say , at least over 30 knots, a real world example occured back in the seventies , with some sort of disaster in the indian sub-continent. That particular task force was detailed with disaster relief and the enterprise was able to make a transit , leaving her consorts in the dust , and some of the squids on usenet used the old time over distance = speed to determine what that particular speed was , which is where I pulled that figure out of. American Figs , Destroyers and Cruisers will pull over thirty knots , however the duration will be the amount of fuel available , rather than lead foot captains, the age of the particular vessel, plus when it was last slepped will also determine a vessels actual speed. Also for the heck of it , that sub that hit the moutain under water , was doing a sustained 30 knots under water. Bogs and Cigs are that fast , they can top out at about 80 mph on calm sea. > [@](#): > > **The Falcon is a civilian (space)ship.** That tends to lower speed even more (less technology available, size of load can be more important than speed, there’s usually less money available for any given ship, etc.). Since Solo is a smuggler, the falcon is fast, but think for a moment. There’s minimal friction in space. How big an object you’re pushing will in this case decrease acceleration, not maximum speed. A star destroyer, as someone pointed out before, is a ridiculously big object. However, that means more space for propulsion, and just as a nuclear reactor takes more space than a conventional engine but increases power output to more than make up the difference, it’s not at all unlikely that a star destroyer can fit an engine that will power it to greater speeds. > > Discussing the maximum speed of nonexistent/fictional spacecraft, MAN this is fun. 😃 Going out on a limb here , but in space the concept of military design and civillian design will be transparent to some degree. While a wet navy vessel(surface) and a wet merchie(surface) will share some commonality in compartmentalization , electronics , navigation , and so forth, one is gonna be a warship and the other is gonna be a merchie , but if you designed a civillian submarine, chances are its gonna resemble a military one , without the weapons suite simply because of the hostile eviroment. Same with the Falcon and other freighters in SW , pirates are a concern ,so your gonna have weapons and a fire control suite , solo says he has modified the falcon , so it looks like a trash hauler , but bearing its smuggling and blockade running mission in mind , its actually quite faster than the standard correllian model. So , to me , the Falcon would have the edge on speed , but the StarDestroyer would have the edge on duration and loiter time. Declan ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/148 "2005-06-20T03:42:24Z")
If getting hit by the Emp’s lightning ages a person… … then why didn’t Luke age in ROTJ? ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/149 "2005-06-20T03:46:43Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > If getting hit by the Emp’s lightning ages a person… > > … then why didn’t Luke age in ROTJ? On the contrary. I think the Emp \*let \* himself be aged, etc…he was gambling everything on Luke rescuing him. Shit, I mean Anakin, of course. And later he uses it as a bargaining chip, “Look what those bad men have done to me, disfigured me, now let’s get them!” I think everything Palpy did was plotted & planned out. He’s easily the most intelligent, wily character…brighter even than George Lucas. Not that that’s saying much. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/150 "2005-06-20T03:56:04Z")
> [@](#): > > I think the Emp let himself be aged, Uh, so Luke _didn’t_ allow himself to be aged? It seems as if you’re arguing that the aging effect is a matter of choice on behalf of the person being struck by lightning: Luke in ROTJ: “OMG, this is painful!! Let’s concentrate all my powers, not to fighting back or running away, but on not getting old and ugly!” I’m not buying it. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/151 "2005-06-20T05:26:58Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > On the contrary. I think the Emp \*let \* himself be aged, etc…he was gambling everything on Luke rescuing him. Shit, I mean Anakin, of course. And later he uses it as a bargaining chip, “Look what those bad men have done to me, disfigured me, now let’s get them!” > > I think everything Palpy did was plotted & planned out. He’s easily the most intelligent, wily character…brighter even than George Lucas. > > Not that that’s saying much. See, this is one of the problems with RotS. I always had the impression that Palpy was freakin’ **ancient** , and that the only reason he was still living was that he was using the Force to keep himself alive. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/152 "2005-06-20T08:19:10Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > See, this is one of the problems with RotS. I always had the impression that Palpy was freakin’ **ancient** , and that the only reason he was still living was that he was using the Force to keep himself alive. Maybe he was. It’s possible (in the sense that there’s nothing to back it and nothing to disprove it) that the middle-aged Palpatine-face was just a disguise. The Emperor was indeed an ancient being kept alive by the force, and the lighting seared away his false face and made him reveal his true self. ---
**Author:** ![Lars\_Aruns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c68b51/32.png) [@Lars\_Aruns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lars_Aruns)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/153 "2005-06-20T10:29:34Z")
After watching the original trilogy again, I have a small little question about the scene where Anakin attacks Palpatine: why didn’t Anakin just whack him over the head? He could have thrown an unconscious Emperor in that chasm without getting electroshocked to death, and ta-da! We now have _two_ Jedis (Luke and Anakin) for the price of one. Ah, I think I know the answer. Dramatic necessity. Oh, well. ---
**Author:** ![Catalyst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@Catalyst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catalyst)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/154 "2005-06-20T12:03:17Z")
> [@Lars Aruns](#): > > After watching the original trilogy again, I have a small little question about the scene where Anakin attacks Palpatine: why didn’t Anakin just whack him over the head? He could have thrown an unconscious Emperor in that chasm without getting electroshocked to death, and ta-da! We now have _two_ Jedis (Luke and Anakin) for the price of one. > > Ah, I think I know the answer. Dramatic necessity. Oh, well. On the other hand, what if he bonks him on the head and _doesn’t_ render him unconscious? Then you’ve just got a pissed off Emperor who knows where to point his lightning. Now, if Vader had a saber handy—that is, if there were one within reach of a force pull—there’s no reason he couldn’t’ve just sliced Palpatine in half. On a related note, now that we know that Palpatine knows how to wield a lightsaber, is there any reason to believe that he wasn’t in fact armed when Luke confronted him? ---
**Author:** ![Lars\_Aruns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c68b51/32.png) [@Lars\_Aruns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lars_Aruns)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/155 "2005-06-20T14:02:08Z")
> [@Catalyst](#): > > On the other hand, what if he bonks him on the head and _doesn’t_ render him unconscious? Fair enough, but is that better that grabbing the guy while he is still _conscious and shooting lightning_ and lugging him around? At least a whack over the head would at the very least distract him, possibly make him dizzy, and hopefully stunning him. Well, I reckon that Lucas was thinking in a mythological context, so that Anakin dying would be cathartic and tragic, while him knocking Palpatine’s noggin and then surviving could be seen as a cheap solution. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/156 "2005-06-20T16:39:37Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > If getting hit by the Emp’s lightning ages a person… > > … then why didn’t Luke age in ROTJ? I don’t think it aged him, I think it just sort of… melted him. Or his face, at least, which is where the lightning was hitting him. Luke, on the other hand, was hit in the chest. Who knows what he looks like without a shirt on now? ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/157 "2005-06-20T16:42:54Z")
> [@Lars Aruns](#): > > **Well, I reckon that Lucas was thinking in a mythological context,** so that Anakin dying would be cathartic and tragic, while him knocking Palpatine’s noggin and then surviving could be seen as a cheap solution. I’m willing to cut a lot of things in Star Wars slack because of that… a lot of decisions were made not based on “here’s an internally consistent world I’ve created with rules and structures and precedents… now how would this situation play out” but on “I want a visually and emotionally satisfying scene”. Certainly, for instance, Obi Wan chopping Darth Maul in half makes NO sense unless you view the light sabre fighting as a sort of extension of the battle of force strength, will and personality that was going on. I think where Lucas gets into the most trouble is where he tries to have it both ways, with things like Midichlorians. Star Wars should either be hard, internally consistent, well-explained Sci Fi, or it should be mythic and archetypal space opera, not both. ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/158 "2005-06-20T16:55:43Z")
[QUOTE=HubZilla] [li]ROTS/TPM: Obi-Wan beats Anakin because he has the “higher ground”. Yet he earlier beats Darth Maul from the lower ground.[/li][/QUOTE] this one I agree with on a certain level. from the movie is (not in the pit) obvious that Darth Maul killed Obi-Wan. after he ganked Rob Roy (cause everyone knows you cant grab a lightsabre and push it away wtf rob?!?!?) the skill difference between the actors was so vast there is simply no way Darth Maul wouldnt have simply poked his sabre out and let Obi-Wan slice himself in half when he tried that stupid ass jump. I want to know where the footage is of Darth Maul standing there giggling over the 2 halves of Obi-Wan? the way the scene SHOULD have played out (and for a brief moment I thought it was going to) was Obi-Wan should have picked up Rob Roy’s lightsabre the second the door opened and gone after Darth Maul florentine (thats with 2 light sabres er swords? yeah whatever)…would have been the best fight scene in movie history so of course this brings the question of what exactly was I smoking when I thought that Lucas was capable of such a feat??? the reason I thought that was going to happen is just before the doors open they cut to a shot of Rob Roy’s light sabre lying on the ground. ---
**Author:** ![Jpeg\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/4bbf92/32.png) [@Jpeg\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jpeg_Jones)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2005, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/159 "2005-06-27T20:40:39Z")
How did Anakin grow to 7 feet tall? Is that all Vader prosthetics, even the James Earl Jones British accent? ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2005, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444/160 "2005-06-27T21:09:20Z")
> [@Jpeg Jones](#): > > How did Anakin grow to 7 feet tall? Is that all Vader prosthetics, even the James Earl Jones British accent? They rebuilt him. They made him better. They had the Technology. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-biggest-plotholes/308444.md?page=9)