# Star Wars contradiction
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-contradiction/233268
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [March 9, 2004, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-contradiction/233268 "2004-03-09T06:55:15Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2004, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-contradiction/233268/21 "2004-03-11T04:39:34Z")
> [@](#):
>
> I always thought it was strange how the “honorable” jedis gang up on the bad guys 2-to-1. First Darth Maul and then Dooku. Talk about unfair.
It’s not supposed to be fair. The Jedi are basically a police force. Their job is to apprehend the wrongdoers. Would you expect the police to say “OK, there’s only one perp. Jones, you want to take care of this? Kowalski, O’Brian, and I are going to head back to the station.”?
---
### Author:  [@Beauty\_Personified](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beauty_Personified)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2004, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-contradiction/233268/22 "2004-03-11T09:46:03Z")
> [@jackelope](#):
>
> As long as there are a bunch of Star Wars fans in here, I’ve got a question that’s bugged me since I saw Episode I:
>
> **What happens when a Jedi dies?**
>
> Obi-Wan dies: Disappears into nothing
> Yoda: Disappears into nothing
> Vader: Body is left there for Luke to burn
Someone remind me, was it Luke or Leia who went back to Endor to check out Vader’s funeral pyre? Whoever it was, they found no biological traces of Vader in the pyre, just pieces of melted armor and machine parts. (And they didn’t just look, they did a scan.)
For the record, I really like the Star Wars novels (aside from _Splinter of the Mind’s Eye_, which is really out of continuity; but for good reason, considering it was written before they knew there’d be a second film). I haven’t read one yet that hasn’t kept my attention enraptured. (Although I’ve yet to read any of the Episode I-III books, or the New Jedi Order series.)
Anyhoo, Luke and Leia can be really annoying at times, but most of the rest of the cast of characters are all pretty interesting. (I’m partial to some of the lesser-known characters; and would like to see more “adventures in the Star Wars universe” stories; like some more anthologies, or a series starring some smugglers, but without Han or Lando.)
Anyhoo…
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### Author:  [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2004, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-contradiction/233268/23 "2004-03-11T11:16:34Z")
> [@jackelope](#):
>
> As long as there are a bunch of Star Wars fans in here, I’ve got a question that’s bugged me since I saw Episode I:
>
> **What happens when a Jedi dies?**
>
> Obi-Wan dies: Disappears into nothing
> Yoda: Disappears into nothing
> Vader: Body is left there for Luke to burn
According to Lucas, Vader’s body _did_ disappear when he died. He just wasn’t quite dead when Luke carried him aboard the shuttle. The armour Luke burned on Endor was empty.
> [@](#):
>
> So far, so good; good Jedis evaporate, bad ones stick around and stink up the place. _But_ when Qui-Gonn (sp?) dies, he’s left there for his death speech with young Obi-Wan. What’s the deal?
Lucas has actually said that this will be explained in Episode III. It’s _not_ a gaffe or a continuity error, and it’s not plot neutral.
---
### Author:  [@El\_Elvis\_Rojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Elvis_Rojo)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2004, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-contradiction/233268/24 "2004-03-11T14:21:17Z")
I always just assumed that only those Jedi who had reached a certain level of “enlightenment”, if you will, evaporated when they died. It’s like reincarnation in a sense…everyone has the potential to attain it, but only a certain few actually make it. There are always people on the path that never quite achieve perfection, and thus, those Jedi don’t “transcend”.
I guess we’ll have to wait and see if Qui-Gon comes back in an astral form to verify. So far, though, all those Jedi that did evaporate seem to come back.
---
### Author:  [@Chastain86](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chastain86)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2004, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-contradiction/233268/25 "2004-03-11T14:35:49Z")
**RANDAL:** And how come, when you turn on a lightsaber, the blade only goes up this high?
**DANTE:** Uh…The Force?
**RANDAL:** Man, that’s your answer for **everything.**
Why must everything make sense for you to enjoy it? Jeez, it’s not the Bible. Eat some popcorn.
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### Author:  [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2004, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-contradiction/233268/26 "2004-03-11T14:51:41Z")
> [@jackelope](#):
>
> As long as there are a bunch of Star Wars fans in here, I’ve got a question that’s bugged me since I saw Episode I:
>
> **What happens when a Jedi dies?**
>
> Obi-Wan dies: Disappears into nothing
> Yoda: Disappears into nothing
> Vader: Body is left there for Luke to burn
>
> So far, so good; good Jedis evaporate, bad ones stick around and stink up the place. _But_ when Qui-Gonn (sp?) dies, he’s left there for his death speech with young Obi-Wan. What’s the deal?
[Here you go](http://www.brunching.com/lukeside.html), **jackelope**. It’s as good a hack as you’re likely to find anywhere.
---
### Author:  [@tanstaafl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanstaafl)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2004, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-contradiction/233268/27 "2004-03-11T17:54:54Z")
> [@AndrewL](#):
>
> I suspect that the measely few hundred pounds of artificial materials in Vader’s body were irrelevent next to the gigatons of Death Star burning up in the atmosphere.
Ah yes, the [Endor Holocaust](http://www.theforce.net/swtc/holocaust.html).
---
### Author:  [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2004, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-contradiction/233268/28 "2004-03-11T18:08:46Z")
> [@El Elvis Rojo](#):
>
> I guess we’ll have to wait and see if Qui-Gon comes back in an astral form to verify. So far, though, all those Jedi that did evaporate seem to come back.
I seem to remember Qui-Gon’s voice speaking to Anakin at some point in AotC. He didn’t appear, per se, but he did have a prescence.
---
### Author:  [@dinoboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dinoboy)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2004, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-contradiction/233268/29 "2004-03-11T18:49:49Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Ah yes, the [Endor Holocaust](http://www.theforce.net/swtc/holocaust.html)
One of my favorite studies. 😃
Small (but fun) HJ:
If you’d like, you can Live the adventure [here](http://www.knology.net/~helba/legowars/index.html)!
---
### Author:  [@jackelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackelope)
#### Post date: [March 12, 2004, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-contradiction/233268/30 "2004-03-12T00:41:05Z")
> [@cuauhtemoc](#):
>
> [Here you go](http://www.brunching.com/lukeside.html), **jackelope**. It’s as good a hack as you’re likely to find anywhere.
That was _great_! Thanks!
---
### Author:  [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)
#### Post date: [March 12, 2004, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-contradiction/233268/31 "2004-03-12T00:46:30Z")
> [@Troy McClure SF](#):
>
> I seem to remember Qui-Gon’s voice speaking to Anakin at some point in AotC. He didn’t appear, per se, but he did have a prescence.
Correct. When he’s wiping out the Tusken village, you can clearly hear Qui-Gon call out, “Anakin, no!”
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### Author:  [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)
#### Post date: [March 12, 2004, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-contradiction/233268/32 "2004-03-12T00:51:21Z")
> [@Chastain86](#):
>
> Why must everything make sense for you to enjoy it? Jeez, it’s not the Bible. Eat some popcorn.
I can only speak for myself, but this is precisely how I enjoy these sorts of movies. A science fiction franchise that doesn’t lend itself to endless nitpicking isn’t worth the price of admission.
---
### Author:  [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)
#### Post date: [March 12, 2004, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-contradiction/233268/33 "2004-03-12T02:17:18Z")
> [@sciguy](#):
>
> Not to mention the umpteen thousand military draftees on the Death Star when he dropped that torpedo down the exhaust vent.
Yeah, but just think of how many experience points he earned!
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### Author:  [@by-tor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/by-tor)
#### Post date: [March 12, 2004, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-contradiction/233268/34 "2004-03-12T09:20:22Z")
Actually, I think it is Yoda, not Anakin, who hears Qui-Gon’s voice when he is meditating in AOTC.
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### Author:  [@Sister\_Vigilante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sister_Vigilante)
#### Post date: [March 12, 2004, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-contradiction/233268/35 "2004-03-12T14:55:58Z")
Essentially, if you kill with anger and hatred in your heart, that is the path to the Dark Side. If you are doing it in self defense, or for the good of the, well, the good guys, then you’ve got no problems. Even being selfish can send you down the wrong path and open you up for manipulation.
But that’s all EU I believe.
Vader did disappear. But I never really thought about how all his machine parts… stayed there. Ew. Borg Queen anyone?
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### Author:  [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)
#### Post date: [March 12, 2004, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-contradiction/233268/36 "2004-03-12T20:39:48Z")
> [@SPOOFE](#):
>
> Actually, they give the retcon that Palpatine had cloned and recloned himself numerous times, as his immense Dark Side powers kept degrading his body. He’d just transfer his essence into a new body, and _voila!_
>
> They made a movie about this, but for some reason, it was set on Earth, starred Arnold Schwarzenegger, and was called _The Sixth Day_.
Wait wait wait wait wait… Emperor Palpatine was _Arnod Schwarzenegger?_ :eek:
> [@jackelope](#):
>
> What happens when a Jedi dies?
There’s a rumor the next movie will address this.
> [@HubZilla](#):
>
> I always thought it was strange how the “honorable” jedis gang up on the bad guys 2-to-1.
Honorable != stupid. 😃
And thanks to **dinopboy** for the fun link! 🙂
---
### Author:  [@The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Asbestos_Mango)
#### Post date: [March 12, 2004, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-contradiction/233268/37 "2004-03-12T21:32:45Z")
> [@Satasha](#):
>
> Actually, I think it is Yoda, not Anakin, who hears Qui-Gon’s voice when he is meditating in AOTC.
It was Anakin, but he wasn’t listening, being too busy with the slaughter.
Yoda sensed Anakin’s anguish over his mother’s death.
I’ve often wondered just how much of Darth Vader’s body was actually mechanical. He did, after all manage to crawl out of the fabled molten pit (mentioned in the novelization of ESB). I really don’t think the pain he would have been in would be conducive to the concentration required for levitation. The mechanical arm would probably have been rendered non-functional, so I’m figuring at least one good arm and leg, and a torso- internal organs would have had to have been mostly intact for him to survive long enough to be put into the HAZMAT suit.
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### Author:  [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)
#### Post date: [March 12, 2004, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-contradiction/233268/38 "2004-03-12T23:32:12Z")
> [@Thea Logica](#):
>
> I’ve often wondered just how much of Darth Vader’s body was actually mechanical.
Better than 50%, if you believe Obi-Wan.
> [@](#):
>
> He did, after all manage to crawl out of the fabled molten pit (mentioned in the novelization of ESB). I really don’t think the pain he would have been in would be conducive to the concentration required for levitation.
Pedant: Jedi can’t truly levitate, only modify the way gravity affects them when they move. Anakin wouldn’t get anywhere near enough support for a “Force Jump” from lava, though, so your point stands (if slightly altered).
> [@](#):
>
> The mechanical arm would probably have been rendered non-functional, so I’m figuring at least one good arm and leg, and a torso- internal organs would have had to have been mostly intact for him to survive long enough to be put into the HAZMAT suit.
Also, we know his head didn’t go under.
My guess would be that _only_ his mechanical arm would remain functional afterwards. Thus, he’d wind up in a Robocop-style suit with the additional bulk and height coming from the limbs being scaled to match a torso necessarily made larger to accommodate life support gear.
---
### Author:  [@The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Asbestos_Mango)
#### Post date: [March 13, 2004, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-contradiction/233268/39 "2004-03-13T02:12:59Z")
And one of these days I’m going to get around to writing that nearly pornographic fanfic in which a female Imperial officer (of which there are some few, Daala can’t be completely alone) has the nerve to wonder about Vader within thought-picking-up distance of the Dark Lord
and has her questions answered in ways nobody thought possible. Afterward, she wakes up in the hyperbaric oxygen chamber, slips the blindfold off and finds herself lying beside a male form that is pale, severely scarred, and incredibly buff. Seems that the only thing that’s mechanical is the right hand and arm.
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### Author:  [@Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skeezix)
#### Post date: [March 13, 2004, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-contradiction/233268/40 "2004-03-13T08:27:55Z")
**Thea** , been watching [Death Race 2000](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0072856/) lately? 😉
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