# Star Wars: Do Jedis not have a problem with lying? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 16, 2014, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-do-jedis-not-have-a-problem-with-lying/693265 "2014-07-16T11:37:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![xizor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xizor/32/102_2.png) [@xizor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xizor)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-do-jedis-not-have-a-problem-with-lying/693265/21 "2014-07-16T15:48:26Z")
> [@PSXer](#): > > when Anakin turned to the Dark Side, the good person he used to be died You know, there really isn’t much in the movies to back up the statement that Anakin ever really was that good of a person. Maybe he wasn’t choking that many people pre-Vader, but he was still a whiny cocky brash narcissistic asshole. Getting back to the OP, even Quigon tried to lie to get his ship fixed (“republican credits are fine”). ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-do-jedis-not-have-a-problem-with-lying/693265/22 "2014-07-16T15:58:14Z")
I never imagined that Jedi had any sort of moral code that precluded lying. They’re simply warrior monks who enforce peace through any means available. Theatricality and deception are powerful agents after all. > [@Ethilrist](#): > > Just because Obi-Wan is capable of mind-controlling them into thinking the droids are a begonia and a Waldorf salad doesn’t change the fact that these are the droids they’re looking for. > [@running\_coach](#): > > And how do you know Obi-Wan didn’t make them think they were a bowl of petunias and a sperm whale? 😃 Because General Rieekan wanted a Waldorf salad! ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-do-jedis-not-have-a-problem-with-lying/693265/23 "2014-07-16T16:06:19Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > Obi-Wan howls like a [rancor?] to frighten off the Tuscan raiders. Krayt dragon. Also, Tusken Raiders. They’re from Tattooine, not Tuscany. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-do-jedis-not-have-a-problem-with-lying/693265/24 "2014-07-16T16:09:43Z")
All it’ll take is for one _Clone Wars_ episode to say “Jedi never lie” and boom - canon - even if it makes no sense at the time and has numerous counter-examples before and after. Same thing happened to Vulcans. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-do-jedis-not-have-a-problem-with-lying/693265/25 "2014-07-16T16:40:46Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > Deception in general is one of the Jedi mind-tricks. Obi-Wan howls like a [rancor?] to frighten off the Tuscan raiders. When Obi-Wan goes to disarm the Death Star’s tractor beam, he creates a audio illusion that makes the guards look the other way. Deception includes mind control: “These aren’t the droids you’re looking for” and whatever Luke says to Bib Fortuna (I don’t remember the exact words.) Lying is just one more form of deception. And it’s a tool in the Jedi arsenal, plain and simple. > > Yoda is just plain wrong, on several counts. “I cannot teach him,” “He’s too old, too old to start the training,” etc. The explanation there is not that he’s lying to Luke, but that “always in motion is the future.” > > Interestingly, the dark side Jedis seem to be more honest – what they say may be twisty, but it’s true (at least in IV, V, and VI – I only saw I, II, and III once each, and that was too many times) [QUOTE=Jack Sparrow] Me I’m dishonest, and a dishonest man you can always trust to be dishonest. Honestly it’s the honest ones you have to watch out for, you never can predict if they’re going to do something incredibly stupid. [/QUOTE] … ---
**Author:** ![MrKnowItAll](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrknowitall/32/87_2.png) [@MrKnowItAll](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrKnowItAll)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-do-jedis-not-have-a-problem-with-lying/693265/26 "2014-07-16T16:47:08Z")
No, the Jedi don’t have a problem with lying if the cause is good. After all, “Only a Sith thinks in absolutes!” ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-do-jedis-not-have-a-problem-with-lying/693265/27 "2014-07-16T16:56:16Z")
> [@MrKnowItAll](#): > > No, the Jedi don’t have a problem with lying if the cause is good. After all, “Only a Sith thinks in absolutes!” “Do, or do not. There is no try.” One of them is lying. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-do-jedis-not-have-a-problem-with-lying/693265/28 "2014-07-16T18:11:45Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > All it’ll take is for one _Clone Wars_ episode to say “Jedi never lie” and boom - canon - even if it makes no sense at the time and has numerous counter-examples before and after. > > Same thing happened to Vulcans. Like this? [Quote=Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country] Captain James T. Kirk: Names, Lieutenant! Lieutenant Valeris: I do not remember. Captain Spock: A lie? Lieutenant Valeris: A choice. [/quote] ---
**Author:** ![Find\_Friends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@Find\_Friends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Find_Friends)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-do-jedis-not-have-a-problem-with-lying/693265/29 "2014-07-16T18:12:41Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > I suppose you can explain the droid mind trick in two different ways. One is that the “victims” of the trick were consistent in what they were looking for, but Obi-Wan convinced them the gay robots in front of them were, in fact Cylons. The other is that the victims’ ideas about _what_ they were looking for were altered. They could see the droids, but now they’re looking for toasters. I assumed the latter, probably without good reason. > > I think **C K Dexter Haven** makes a great point about how the Jedi clearly embrace deception as one of their tools. Okay. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-do-jedis-not-have-a-problem-with-lying/693265/30 "2014-07-16T18:16:29Z")
Y’know, there’s great benefit to be had in spreading about the rumor that you never lie. Especially if you do. The Vulcans realized that, and maybe so did the Jedi. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-do-jedis-not-have-a-problem-with-lying/693265/31 "2014-07-16T18:57:07Z")
> [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > …Jedis, like cops and soldiers, are there to save lives and solve problems. If a lie expedites this, so be it. Quite so. Being honest, and being widely seen as honest, is consistent with Jedi good-guy values, and is the usual Jedi practice. But sometimes, on rare occasions, you serve the greater good by lying. Then lie you must. > [@running\_coach](#): > > …And how do you know Obi-Wan didn’t make them think they were a bowl of petunias and a sperm whale? 😃 Oh, not again… _again_… ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-do-jedis-not-have-a-problem-with-lying/693265/32 "2014-07-16T19:45:45Z")
> [@xizor](#): > > Getting back to the OP, even Quigon tried to lie to get his ship fixed (“republican credits are fine”). Which brings me to the stupidest thing in the prequels, IMHO. Why the hell are Republic credits worthless on a planet where people have spaceships that can fly to the Republic? If I wanna pay you in money that can’t be spent here, but can be spent a six hour drive from here, that money isn’t worthless. Especially since he was offering a ton of money. Hey asshole, fly over to the Republic Walmart and buy something that isn’t worthless on this sandy shithole. Shit, trade the ship for passage on a freighter. I’m sure some captain is vulnerable to mind control and would love a shiny ship with a simple engine problem in exchange for acting as a taxi for a day. No, the obvious choice is to put a six year old in a death race where members of the audience murder them with rifles and it’s okay to openly sabotage an opponents vehicle on the starting line. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-do-jedis-not-have-a-problem-with-lying/693265/33 "2014-07-16T20:04:52Z")
Well, it was a more civilized time… ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-do-jedis-not-have-a-problem-with-lying/693265/34 "2014-07-16T20:23:14Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > Theatricality and deception are powerful agents after all. Your doings, they are seen[.](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0372784/quotes) ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-do-jedis-not-have-a-problem-with-lying/693265/35 "2014-07-16T20:51:17Z")
> [@Trans Fat Og](#): > > Okay. Wait, did I just Jedi mind trick you? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-do-jedis-not-have-a-problem-with-lying/693265/36 "2014-07-16T21:04:03Z")
> [@](#): > > Getting back to the OP, even Quigon tried to lie to get his ship fixed (“republican credits are fine”). Heck, he followed up by _successfully_ passing off the won-it-in-a-game-of-chance line. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-do-jedis-not-have-a-problem-with-lying/693265/37 "2014-07-16T21:38:08Z")
They’re not _lying_; they’re unreliable narrator-ing… ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-do-jedis-not-have-a-problem-with-lying/693265/38 "2014-07-16T22:03:00Z")
> [@PSXer](#): > > “Darth Vader killed your father” wasn’t a lie if you look at it from the right point of view > > when Anakin turned to the Dark Side, the good person he used to be died That’s a point of view most of us would call a lie. But all lies aren’t equal. There’s nothing morally wrong about telling the Stormtroopers those weren’t the droids they were looking for. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-do-jedis-not-have-a-problem-with-lying/693265/39 "2014-07-16T23:40:16Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Well, it was a more civilized time… When men were REAL men, women were REAL women, and small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri were REAL small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-do-jedis-not-have-a-problem-with-lying/693265/40 "2014-07-17T00:17:51Z")
For that matter, they could have mind-tricked a moneychanger into accepting the Republic credits, and used local currency to buy the engine repairs. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-do-jedis-not-have-a-problem-with-lying/693265.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-do-jedis-not-have-a-problem-with-lying/693265.md?page=3)