# Star Wars: Episode IV **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 19, 2000, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-iv/37597 "2000-10-19T23:16:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2000, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-iv/37597/1 "2000-10-19T23:16:59Z")
I was looking at Snopes today, when I found this: > [@](#): > > but Hollywood has had no compunctions about releasing non-sequel films bearing titles such as Leonard Part 6, creating sequels with names like Naked Gun 2 ½, or re-releasing the original Star Wars film with an addition to the opening screen crawl that identified it as “Episode IV.” (No, Star Wars didn’t bear this designation in its original release, so don’t write to us to tell us it did.) Okay, I saw _Star Wars_ when it was first released. I’d read in a fanzine (I don’t remember which one) that George Lucas had a master plan to release nine films in the series, and that the first one, _Star Wars_ was released as if there had been three other episodes. I _remember_ seeing “Episode IV” crawling up the screen, and I _remember_ reading about the episode numbering convention and the idea of making a bunch of movies. Is Snopes right? Am I remembering wrong? Or is Snopes wrong? (I’ve been a little skeptical about a couple of things there.) ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2000, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-iv/37597/2 "2000-10-19T23:26:45Z")
I’d be willing to bet that the opening “crawler” said Episode IV at the time of the original release. ---
**Author:** ![\_Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/_/e47c2d/32.png) [@\_Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/_Tim)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2000, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-iv/37597/3 "2000-10-19T23:27:38Z")
Snopes is correct. The original release lacked the Episode IV title. Hell, I saw the sneak preview. They cut a fair bit from that… (Mostly, the space combat scenes were much longer in the original; the edits were an improvement.) ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2000, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-iv/37597/4 "2000-10-19T23:32:09Z")
_Star Wars_ lacked “Episode IV” and “A New Hope” when it came out. I must have seen the thing 100 times on a black-market VHS that my neighbors had; it was weird when the authorized video came out years later and had that added. Lucas did in fact talk about a nonology at the time; I do not recall whether I first heard him talk about it before or after the movie came out. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2000, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-iv/37597/5 "2000-10-19T23:44:50Z")
Another “no” vote. I saw it in the original release, too, and there was no “Episode IV.” And a little thought should have made you realize how unlikely it was. No one had any idea that Star Wars would be a hit, let alone a hit as big as it was. Hollywood thought science fiction films never made money and certainly wasn’t going to commit to a series of sequels before the first was released. Lucas may have conceived it as nine films, but he kept that quiet until the original was a hit. ---
**Author:** ![johnson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@johnson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnson)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2000, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-iv/37597/6 "2000-10-20T01:42:11Z")
I don’t believe _Star Wars_ was labled Episode IV when it came out–remember the cool way the intro scrolled up the screen–“A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away”? If I recall correctly, “Star Wars” was at the beginning (or was it the end), but no Episode IV. I certainly did read around the time _Star Wars_ came out that the plan was nine films–might have been in _Dynamite_ magazine (whatever happened to that, by the way?). One thing I could swear I read was that Darth Vadar wore a mask because he got into a light-saber duel with Luke’s father on the lip of a volcano, which he fell into, resulting in horrible disfigurement etc. Obviously, if that was the original plan, it changed between Episodes IV and VI. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2000, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-iv/37597/7 "2000-10-20T02:22:21Z")
One thing to remember is that the entire concept of SW underwent some radical changes between the first conceptualization and what eventually appeared on screen. In it’s very earliest form, it was going to be something like Dune, an ancient galactic empire with an ongoing power struggle between the Jedi and the Sith as rival factions. Even after filming starts, things are modified on the basis of what can actually be filmed, what sounded good on paper but didn’t look good on film, unpredictable production problems, the need to keep the whole thing at about two hours, etc. It’s true: “A work of art is never finished, only abandoned.” BTW: Better informed sources should comment, but I thought I’d read that while Lucas might have speculated about a triple-trilogy, he has since said that there will only be six parts. I mean, it’s been 25 years, and we’ve only seen four so far! ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2000, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-iv/37597/8 "2000-10-20T02:55:23Z")
It’s amazing how many people insist that when they first saw “Star Wars” it said “Episode IV” on it. I finally convinced a friend of mine of this by sending her several dozen posts on a Star Wars usenet group from people who saw the movie over 100 times when it first came out. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2000, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-iv/37597/9 "2000-10-20T03:44:10Z")
At Star Wars’s first re-release, which I believe was a year or six months before Empire Strikes Back was to come out (so that would be late 1979), was the first time that it had the additional labelling of ‘Episode IV: A New Hope’. In anticipation, of course, of the ongoing saga. And incidentally, you can forget there ever being an episode 7, 8, or 9. George scuppered that idea pretty quickly after realising he wanted more to his life than just Star Wars, and anyway he didn’t really have a particularly strong storyline to work with for the continuing saga beyond. ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2000, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-iv/37597/10 "2000-10-20T04:02:42Z")
“Star Wars” did not say Episode IV on its initial release. I remember when “The Empire Strikes Back” was released and _it_ said Episode V. Everyone asked, “When were II, III, and IV released?” The nine-part story wasn’t revealed until TESB was released with the Episode V bit. ---
**Author:** ![delphica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9a140/32.png) [@delphica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/delphica)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2000, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-iv/37597/11 "2000-10-21T00:28:18Z")
The movie didn’t say Episode IV when it was first released, as so many people have pointed out, but the novelization has this as its title page: STAR WARS from the Adventures of Luke Skywalker by George Lucas I’m looking at my hardcover copy of the novel, which has a copyright date of 1976. I remember nagging my parents to go out and buy me the rest of the Luke Skywalker adventures. So, even in 1976 there was some sense that the movie/story of Star Wars was part of a series, and possibly not the first part. IMHO, the novel is pretty interesting and brings up several ideas and themes that don’t really make it into the rest of the series at all. ---
**Author:** ![quasar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/48db29/32.png) [@quasar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quasar)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2000, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-iv/37597/12 "2000-10-21T01:55:53Z")
What I heard is that after the second trilogy is finished, Lucas is going to produce Episode 0: The Wrath of Jar Jar. It is one of those what if kind of flicks. The action revolves around Mr.Binks, a jedi master struggling not to be seduced by the dark side of the schwartz. I could tell you more but then I would have to kill you! ---
**Author:** ![GKittridge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e274bd/32.png) [@GKittridge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GKittridge)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2000, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-iv/37597/13 "2000-10-21T07:08:29Z")
I seem to recall a review in either _Time_ or _Newsweek_ when **Star Wars** came out that said Lucas was thinking about 12 movies. Anybody still have that issue? And because I have to mention it, the **Star Wars** novel delphica mentions, while crediting George Lucas as the author, was actually written by Alan Dean Foster. ---
**Author:** ![Yankee\_Blue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/7ea924/32.png) [@Yankee\_Blue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yankee_Blue)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2000, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-iv/37597/14 "2000-10-21T14:57:12Z")
No, there was no ‘Episode IV’ or ’ A New Hope’ on the original release. As a child, I saw it a gajillion times and although I don’t have an eidetic memory it’s pretty damn good especially when boosted by so much reinforcement. After it took George about ten years longer than originally planned to get off his ass and start the ‘prequel’ trilogy, it pretty much assured the scuttling of a third trilogy since all the primary participants will be octagenarian or dead by then. Lucas still weilds veto power over what story lines are gospel and which are so much offal. He says, for instance, none of the Dark Horse comic storylines will ever be included in the Star Wars Cannon or any story that borrows from them. The novels of Timothy Zahn, however, have gotten the Lucas nod of approval. ((Forgive me I live with a SW geek.)) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2000, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-iv/37597/15 "2000-10-21T15:22:04Z")
You know? I liked _Star Wars_. I liked _The Empire Strikes Back_. I even liked _Return of the Jedi_… until Lucas threw in those nasty little Ewoks. Ugh! I hate them! Oh, and the Old Big-One Kielbasa coming in _deus ex machina_ (in the second one? It’s been a while.): “Luke, The other hope is your sister, who happens to be princess Leia. And Vader’s your father. Well, I have to get back to the ether now…” I would have made the trilogy a little more Greek-tragedy-like. Solo would lose Leia to Luke. Luke would and Leia would have fallen deep in love, which results in Leia’s pregnancy. _Then_ they’d find out they were siblings! Luke gets killed in battle. Leia retreats to an isolated planet to give birth to her nephew-son. _He_ becomes “The New Hope”. And _no Ewoks_! Solo eventually finds Leia. Leia tells her dark secret, but Solo understands. Happy ending. Sequel? Vader usurps power from the Emporer. He finds out about The New Hope and seeks to destroy him. Blah, blah, blah… _The Phantom Menace_ just blew chunks. (“No, you don’t understand… “Chunks” is my _dog_!”) After I saw TPM, I happened to watch _The Professional_. I thought to myself, “That little girl is a realy good actress. I wonder what else she’s been in?” After the movie, I looked up the cast for _The Professional_. She was Natalie Portman! She was so good in _The Professional_, and so bad in TPM! Okay, I’ll ask a question now. When was _Star Wars_ released on cable? ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2000, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-iv/37597/16 "2000-10-21T16:24:06Z")
I just have to chime in with the startling and original idea that Lucas forgot about character development in TPM. And a running court jester is not what Star Wars needs. It needs more intensity than that. And I have to see the villian enough to really hate him if I’m going to really care that he was defeated. I didn’t care about any of these people. George!! It’s not all about plot exposition and fx! (He reads this board, right? Doesn’t everyone?) ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2000, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-iv/37597/17 "2000-10-21T18:01:16Z")
I heard that Lucas vetoed the third trilogy (occuring after the destruction of the empire) because it had Luke Skywalker being seduced by the Dark Side and becoming a sort of neo-Darth Vader. Was this the story line in the Dark Horse comics? Supposedly, George Hamilton (the guy who played Luke) was all for this change of direction, but Lucas said “Forget it!” ---
**Author:** ![Groundskeeper\_Willie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Groundskeeper\_Willie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Groundskeeper_Willie)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2000, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-iv/37597/18 "2000-10-21T18:05:09Z")
> [@](#): > > George Hamilton (the guy who played Luke) George Hamilton? And I had always thought it was Mark Hamill.🙂 Bill ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2000, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-iv/37597/19 "2000-10-21T18:32:22Z")
I’d have to agree with nearly everything said in this thread about the first movie, that it did NOT say “Episode 4 - A New Hope” at the beginning; that it was supposed to be nine films, but Lucas cut it back to six when he realized he’d be about 90 before it was all done; that Alan Dean Foster wrote the novelization; that not all SW novels are to be accepted as Gospel (just like _Trek_ novels, except for the ones adapted directly from movies or TV episodes). It’s just as well. Had Lucas tried to make nine SW movies, would he have made the Indiana Jones flicks and TV series? OTOH, he might not have made _Howard the Duck_ or _American Graffiti #2_. It’s a trade-off. ---
**Author:** ![Yankee\_Blue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/7ea924/32.png) [@Yankee\_Blue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yankee_Blue)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2000, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-iv/37597/20 "2000-10-21T18:51:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diceman \* > \*\*I heard that Lucas vetoed the third trilogy (occuring after the destruction of the empire) because it had Luke Skywalker being seduced by the Dark Side and becoming a sort of neo-Darth Vader. Was this the story line in the Dark Horse comics? Lucas said “Forget it!” \*\* IIRC That is the gist of the Dark Horse Story line, yes, but it was never intended to be the stuff of a third trilogy. From what I understand, the only idependently written novels that Lucas likes are those ‘starring’ Grand Admiral Thrawn and take place (I think) just after ROTJ. Lucas, IMO, should never be allowed to actually write - conceptualize, yes - write, no. He is really one of the worst writers. Have you ever tried to read the stuff he’s written without help? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-iv/37597.md?page=2)