# Star Wars Episode VII anticipation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 23, 2013, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936 "2013-08-23T02:11:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/361 "2014-12-05T14:23:08Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I wasn’t aware anyone above the age of 14 had ever advanced such an argument. The under-14 crowd worries me, though. My 9-year-old son thinks the prequels are just as good as the original films - or rather, he sees the entire series as a single continuum, with all of the episodes being more or less equal, quality-wise. I don’t think he realizes there was a 16-year gap between episodes 6 and 1. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/362 "2014-12-05T14:30:19Z")
> [@gonzoron](#): > > I’d put Ewan MacGregor in that category too. Indeed. Obi-Wan’s distress with Anakin at the end of the fight was possibly the best bit of acting in the entire trilogy (not much I know but still …) 7mins into this: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSwy412nttI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSwy412nttI) ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/363 "2014-12-05T15:21:49Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Indeed. Obi-Wan’s distress with Anakin at the end of the fight was possibly the best bit of acting in the entire trilogy (not much I know but still …) > > 7mins into this: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSwy412nttI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSwy412nttI) FWIW, there were a number of competent actors in the prequels; the issue appears more often to have been the direction and the script. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/364 "2014-12-05T16:30:03Z")
Link to “international trailer”: (Or did I get punked?) ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/365 "2014-12-05T16:34:43Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Link to “international trailer”: > > (Or did I get punked?) It has to be fan made. The description says “Awesome! Great tone to this trailer! Now I just can’t wait for the real thing!” ---
**Author:** ![August\_West](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/august_west/32/18069_2.png) [@August\_West](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/August_West)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/366 "2014-12-05T20:12:16Z")
I thought I’d posted this before, but I guess not. Here’s the thing about Eps 1-3, they were **propaganda films** made by the Sith. Cute little orphan Anakin, genius pod racer/builder, is forced by the Jedi to become evil! It’s all their fault, especially that meddlesome Yoda. Midichloridians! See, these Jedi guys aren’t special, they’re just genetic freaks. They even hang out with goofuses like Jar-Jar Binks! Once you have this figured out, it increases the joy of viewing them immensely. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/367 "2014-12-05T20:14:50Z")
> [@LawMonkey](#): > > While I don’t have the time to hunt them down right now, there’ve been threads on this very board advancing such an argument. \*\* Some people REALLY fucking hate Ewoks\*\*. Yo! But I’ve never held that the prequels were anything but garbage. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/368 "2014-12-05T20:30:54Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Indeed. Obi-Wan’s distress with Anakin at the end of the fight was possibly the best bit of acting in the entire trilogy (not much I know but still …) > > 7mins into this: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSwy412nttI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSwy412nttI) IIRC, those last couple of minutes were directed by Steven Spielberg. ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/369 "2014-12-05T21:27:22Z")
> [@LawMonkey](#): > > While I don’t have the time to hunt them down right now, there’ve been threads on this very board advancing such an argument. Some people REALLY fucking hate Ewoks. Now that I both have time and have been reminded of this, here’s a thread in which the OP argues that Aot(K)C(fOS)\* is not just better than RotJ, [it’s better than ANH and ESB](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=318909). O.O - Attack of the (Killer) Clones (from Outer Space), my preferred title for that particular hot mess. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/370 "2014-12-05T21:47:54Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > IIRC, those last couple of minutes were directed by Steven Spielberg. Really? Never heard that. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2014, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/371 "2014-12-06T00:30:24Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > “The Phantom Menace,” if you took out Jar Jar entirely without changing the story somehow, and changed Watto and the Trade Federation guys so they were not grotesquely racist, would be less offensive, but it would not be a better movie. It would still be an incoherent mess featuring characters you don’t care about, and would, in the context of the prequel trilogy, be wholly redundant. (It is said Topher Grace’s radical edit of the trilogy simply leaves out almost the entire movie, since it is entirely unnecessary in telling the overall story.) Indeed. Who ever asked for Anakin as a kid? What we needed was: Ep. I: Anakin as a heroic Jedi apprentice. A story of the start of the Clone Wars with a good plot arc. There seems to be a sense resolution at the end of this movie, but Palpatine is sowing the seeds of disorder, and we can see how things might go wrong. Ep. II: There is a betrayal, and the Clone Wars continue with a new twist. Anakin has new responsibilities and finds that he is not _quite_ up to the challenge. Palp by now has his eye on him, and he subtly suggests that Anakin try using the Dark Side to win. Anakin does, finds that the Dark Side gives him the edge to win–he is “seduced.” But he hides it from his fellow Jedi, thinks he can control it like a drug addict does. He is victorious again, but we suspect that he will not be able to hold it together. Note the more interesting and realistic way that Anakin falls. None of this “save your wife from dying in pregnancy” bullshit. Ep. III: Palp continues his political machinations. He has served as leader in the Clone Wars and won, justifying his continued use of power. This is much more subtle and believable than in the prequels. Anakin is finding that he is about to lose it, and he can’t hide is Dark Side leanings from the other Jedi. He is given a kind of kangaroo court trial and cast out (it’s subtly fair but not fair). Palp reveals his true nature asks Anakin to be his apprentice. Anakin makes his tragic decision. The Jedi are ordered disbanded by the Empire, but there is no corny Order 66 or whatever. It is more of a Night of the Long Knives scenario where some are captured and killed as traitors but most are allowed to flee. At this point, Palp’s power is not quite consolidated, and he isn’t looking for that much trouble (a la Hitler in 1934). This explains why Obi Wan Kenobi is later not hunted down on Tatooine, and the Senate is not even dismissed until Ep. IV. Anakin, now Darth Vader, is the leader of the suppression, and again his behavior is subtle, as he allows certain Jedi to live, etc. He is willing to let Obi Wan go, but Obi Wan insists on a fight, which he wins. Even here, you really only need Eps. II and III, but Ep. I could be a rousing story in which Anakin is 100% a hero. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2014, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/372 "2014-12-06T00:43:03Z")
If the dude from the Reddit spoilers is right, I’m excited mostly for the premise. In that context, it of course makes the episode title make more sense, and makes the teaser trailer all the more interesting in retrospect. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2014, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/373 "2014-12-06T00:51:42Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > Indeed. Who ever asked for Anakin as a kid? What we needed was… That all sounds pretty good. Well done! ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2014, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/374 "2014-12-06T01:03:47Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > Indeed. Who ever asked for Anakin as a kid? Who the hell asked for Anakin at all? Vader was cool and all, but so what? Darth Maul was cooler. Ooh, ooh, I’m your father and the story is all about me now! Whatever. He was just a villain. Die. On to the next one. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2014, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/375 "2014-12-06T01:28:57Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > That all sounds pretty good. Well done! Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2014, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/376 "2014-12-06T01:30:20Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Who the hell asked for Anakin at all? Vader was cool and all, but so what? Darth Maul was cooler. Ooh, ooh, I’m your father and the story is all about me now! Whatever. He was just a villain. Die. On to the next one. Yes, the nature of Vader clearly changes in ESB. It’s a little more politically realistic in ANH, in which he defers to Tarkin, etc. I like the Original Trilogy story well enough, however. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2014, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/377 "2014-12-06T04:37:01Z")
And, in the Prequels, make Obi Wan and Anakin have real, tangible chemistry; a deep friendship that is devastating to the audience when Anakin chooses the dark side. Their friendship could’ve played well as a buddy cop movie, like Lethal Weapon, where Anakin is the cocky loose canon. He breaks the rules because he does think he’s above them, “knowing” he’s the best Jedi because his hubris, ultimately consummating his forbidden love for Padme, which fully brings him to the Dark Side. It’s so simple actually. All the context was RIGHT there staring Lucas in his non-existent chin, and instead we got CSPAN with lasers. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2014, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/378 "2014-12-06T05:12:54Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > And, in the Prequels, make Obi Wan and Anakin have real, tangible chemistry; a deep friendship that is devastating to the audience when Anakin chooses the dark side. Right! In the actual movies, it’s like, “Remember the time we did that one thing? Ahahah!” Show, don’t tell. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2014, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/379 "2014-12-06T05:51:59Z")
> [@LawMonkey](#): > > FWIW, there were a number of competent actors in the prequels; the issue appears more often to have been the direction and the script. Hayden Christensen had enough good acting scenes in his films to convince me that the problem was direction not acting. [QUOTE=cmyk] If the dude from the Reddit spoilers is right, I’m excited mostly for the premise. [/QUOTE] It sounds like bad fanfiction so,I hope its not right at all.:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2014, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/380 "2014-12-06T06:40:09Z")
I actually don’t think Lightsabers should have been common weapons, and I think making Jedi ninja flipping glowstick shock troops was a huge misstep. Jedi should be shown using a large variety of weapons, and IMO Lightsaber fights should have been more of a ceremonial thing. Sort of like how many martial arts or sword fighting schools (e.g. Kendo) are today. Largely, lightsaber battles were used as metaphors in the original trilogy, to punctuate emotional struggles between people. Making them largely useless weapons would enhance the original trilogy a great deal. Obi Wan is training Luke in lightsabers out of a sense of wistfulness, not practicality. Vader uses one largely because he’s a big brute meant to be scary. He’s not a front line soldier. Luke’s mistaken use of the implement as a weapon becomes a sort of irony. A man with an impractical weapon toppling the better-equipped Empire, simply by the power of what it stands for (the old Republic and the Jedi). His clumsy, but practical use of it shows that he’s as much a new generation as an old one. Finding new ways to use old toys. It implies that it’s not the exact traditions that matter, but the underlying philosophy (the Light side, rather than the traditions of the Jedi). In fact, it may have been better to show very few of the Jedi ever actually fighting. Sort of an elite class that, while compassionate and wise, are very much leaders and not soldiers. Their idea of the Lightsaber being a “weapon” is kind of silly because they don’t know what modern-day fighting even entails. Maybe a few Jedi are soldiers, and use their Lightsaber as a sort of swiss army knife, but largely prefer blasters or perhaps more functional variants on the Lightsaber. I guess in a way I kind of think the best way to view the Jedi would have been the way many warrior classes were in history, like Samurai or noble knights. People that were legitimate, elite soldiers at one point, but by the time of their decline were largely bureaucrats with a mythologized code of honor upholding impractical traditions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936.md?page=20)