# Star Wars Episode VII anticipation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 23, 2013, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936 "2013-08-23T02:11:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/681 "2015-10-22T01:07:35Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > I agree that that would be a totally inadequate number for the prequels’ setting. Agree with what? I didn’t say anything about inadequacy. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/682 "2015-10-22T01:16:04Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Agree with what? I didn’t say anything about inadequacy. Oh, I thought you were implying that. I think it would. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/683 "2015-10-22T01:24:40Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > General Motti doesn’t seem to know Vader’s past very well in Ep. IV; he doesn’t even know that the Force is real. I think you have misinterpreted that scene. Everybody present knows the Force is real; there is no great surprise or confusion at what Vader does. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/684 "2015-10-22T01:53:33Z")
No, ten thousand seems plenty to justify the role the Jedi were playing in the Republic in the prequels. I mean, you look at their role in the Republic military, and they’re all generals. And they’re not the only generals: there’s a whole command structure of non-Jedis already running things. Militarily, the Jedi are a sort of elite command cadre. And once they’re defined as the elite, you can make the organization nearly any size you want: you just say they’re the top X% of the army, where X = the number of Jedi you want divided by the size of the army you want. And the same goes for the Jedi in other capacities. We see Jedi acting as diplomats, but they’re not the entire Republic diplomatic corps. In _Phantom Menace_, the Trade Federation guys shit a brick when a couple of Jedi walk off the shuttle to negotiate: it’s clear that was the last thing they expected, and that leads them to panicking and trying to gas them. So, yeah. Ten thousand? Smaller than I would have guessed, but still plenty big enough for what we see in the movies. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/685 "2015-10-22T02:13:57Z")
Ten thousand in a galaxy of…trillions? tens of trillions? more? I’m sure politicians knew about jedi, even if most of them never even saw one, but for people like Rey and Flinn they would be nothing but legends if they had even heard of them to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/686 "2015-10-22T02:16:29Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > I think you have misinterpreted that scene. Everybody present knows the Force is real; there is no great surprise or confusion at what Vader does. I think Motti is surprised. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/687 "2015-10-22T02:19:02Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > So, yeah. Ten thousand? Smaller than I would have guessed, but still plenty big enough for what we see in the movies. I don’t agree, but again, in the OT all that doesn’t really matter. One’s imagination is left to fill in the blanks. The prequels set up a world that doesn’t make much sense. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/688 "2015-10-22T02:31:01Z")
Heh. I was just watching a trailer for the new season of Rebels, and there’s a line of dialogue in it that specifically says that there were ten thousand Jedis before the purge. So that’s officially cannon, now. On the subject of people believing in the Force, another thing to consider is that the Jedi Order was extremely racially diverse. You see a Jedi block a blaster bolt with his lightsaber. You know _you_ couldn’t do that without mystical powers. But that guy? Who knows what species that guy even is? Maybe they’re all just really fast by nature. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/689 "2015-10-22T04:23:47Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > He looks like a pizza delivery driver. > [@Aeschines](#): > > Haha, and a skeevy one at that. > [@Penfeather](#): > > Your lack of weed disturbs me. :: handwave :: This isn’t the pizza I ordered, so I don’t have to pay for it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/690 "2015-10-22T04:25:55Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > I think Motti is surprised. 🙂 He’s lucky he wasn’t shocked. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/691 "2015-10-22T04:53:14Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Well, except that we know who’s playing that character, and it’s [this dude.](http://images.hngn.com/data/images/full/15139/adam-driver-girls.jpg) Holy crap, they cloned [Alfalfa!](http://legendsrevealed.com/entertainment/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/alfalfa-print-c10113037.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/692 "2015-10-22T05:44:56Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Militarily, the Jedi are a sort of elite command cadre. Some sort of … _commisariat_, if you will… ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/693 "2015-10-22T06:01:20Z")
The Jedi are supposed to be like Soviet Political officers. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/694 "2015-10-22T07:22:44Z")
You guys do what you want, but I take any sort of cannon from the Prequels with a huge grain of salt. I’m too used to thinking in only the OT lore to try an shoehorn Lucas’ abortion into the big picture. It’s like he never watched his own Trilogy more than once when he wrote I-III. If VII-IX largely ignore the prequels, that’s winning half the battle right there. It took Han a while to come around to believing in the Force, and being a smuggler, he’s been a lot of places and seen a lot of things. I’d use him as the galactic barometer as to how most of the Galaxy thought about the Jedi. Also, be wary of that trailer, I’m sure there’s some intentionally misleading editing going on. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/695 "2015-10-22T07:29:42Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > Everything Wrong With the trailer: > > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCNxZk-OWOE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCNxZk-OWOE) I love a good poke at anything, SW included, but his “sins” were largely invalid, completely pointless (making a crack at how old Leia is, or what’s in Han’s jacket pocket??), if not totally unfunny (“What’s this? A droid in sand? How’s that supposed ta werk?! Yuk yuk yuk!”). Just lame. ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/696 "2015-10-22T07:31:41Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Also, be wary of that trailer, I’m sure there’s some intentionally misleading editing going on. I thought that was very clear, to the point I am surprised to see people arguing over things like “people don’t know what the force is”. Maybe they don’t, but I wouldn’t use that trailer as evidence of anything. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/697 "2015-10-22T13:32:03Z")
BTW, it’s “canon,” not “cannon.” ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/698 "2015-10-22T14:42:27Z")
> [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](#): > > There’s a trillion people on Coruscant alone. In the prequels we barely see more than a handful of Jedi. In one scene we see Yoda training maybe a dozen Jedi kids. For the Jedi to have any kind of noticeable presence in the Republic he should be training hundreds of millions at a time. and yet, Anakin, a slave child on a backward, outer rim planet that is even beyond the tenuous control of the Republic has heard of Jedi and recognizes Qui Gon as one. He even idolizes them as he cannot conceive of a Jedi being defeated and rejects Qui Gon’s weak hypothesis of stealing a lightsaber from one. Obviously, the Jedi are well known in the galaxy. They have been its guardians and peacekeepers for 1000s of years prior to Episode 1. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/699 "2015-10-22T14:48:52Z")
Al these problems with the in-universe population recognition or lack thereof of the Jedi are problems with the plot of the prequels not the next movie. The OT clearly showed that Jedis were thought as an ancient religion that was probably mistical nonsense (Han Solo plainly says it, and so does the imperial officer Vader force-chokes). Then in the prequel we get nonsense like thousands of Jedi and them being recognized everywhere and all that jazz. If you ignore the prequels, as any rational person would ;), the problem goes away. Jedis were a myth in the OT and so they continue to be in “The Force Awakens”. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/700 "2015-10-22T14:51:40Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > I think Motti is surprised. 🙂 Motti is not surprised that he _could_ do it, he was surprised that he _would_ do it. Vader was seen by the military as the Emperor’s lapdog and as subordinate to Tarkin on the Death Star. Also, Motti kind of had a point. The Force hadn’t helped Vader do his job and he still had not gotten the stolen plans back. He just wasn’t very political to rub Vader’s face in it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936.md?page=34) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936.md?page=36)