# Star Wars Episode VII anticipation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 23, 2013, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936 "2013-08-23T02:11:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 36
**Author:** ![Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uosdwis_R.Dewoh)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/701 "2015-10-22T15:06:20Z")
> [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > Motti is not surprised that he _could_ do it, he was surprised that he _would_ do it. Vader was seen by the military as the Emperor’s lapdog and as subordinate to Tarkin on the Death Star. My theory is that in practice the power of the empire was shared between the emperor and Tarkin, hence him holding Vader’s “leach”. It’s awfully convenient that the emperor’s biggest rival died while his right hand man survived. #deathStarWasAInsideJob #protonTorpedoesDontMeltReactorCores ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/702 "2015-10-22T15:13:09Z")
> [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > and yet, Anakin, a slave child on a backward, outer rim planet that is even beyond the tenuous control of the Republic has heard of Jedi and recognizes Qui Gon as one. He even idolizes them as he cannot conceive of a Jedi being defeated and rejects Qui Gon’s weak hypothesis of stealing a lightsaber from one. Obviously, the Jedi are well known in the galaxy. They have been its guardians and peacekeepers for 1000s of years prior to Episode 1. He also thought Padme was an angel. 🙂 Clearly there are _legends_ of Jedi throughout the galaxy, and they have a long and storied history. But that is not inconsistent with skepticism towards the idea that the ones working for the government are just remnants of an old religious order with an exaggerated past and some traditional ceremonial roles. And the idea that Jedi warriors were involved in destroying the death star would be thought of as just as reasonable as the idea that members of some ancient order of catholic priests were. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/703 "2015-10-22T15:58:13Z")
Fodder for the Luke-is-evil theory: [here’s a clip](http://www.vulture.com/2015/10/did-hamill-sell-abrams-on-evil-luke-skywalker.html) from 10 years ago of Mark Hamill talking about how he pitched the idea to Lucas that Luke should turn bad. And sitting next to him on the panel, J.J. Abrams. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/704 "2015-10-22T16:08:19Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > BTW, it’s “canon,” not “cannon.” Tell that to autocorrect. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/705 "2015-10-22T16:48:20Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Maybe they’re all just really fast by nature. I was watching a YouTube critique of _The Phantom Menace_ and it was pointed out that in the beginning when Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon are attacked by the destroyer droids on the ship, they get away in the blink of the eye–but then they never move that fast again! > [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > Also, Motti kind of had a point. The Force hadn’t helped Vader do his job and he still had not gotten the stolen plans back. He just wasn’t very political to rub Vader’s face in it. And what good would have getting the plans back been? They had FTL starships but not the cloud or internet? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/706 "2015-10-22T17:08:41Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > And what good would have getting the plans back been? They had FTL starships but not the cloud or internet? :dubious: You can put that to the original trilogy having a 1970s idea of technology. The rebels stole some blueprints. It’s lucky that the Emperor had made a photocopy for the Death Star’s foreman to complete construction from. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/707 "2015-10-22T17:19:50Z")
> [@leahcim](#): > > You can put that to the original trilogy having a 1970s idea of technology. The rebels stole some blueprints. It’s lucky that the Emperor had made a photocopy for the Death Star’s foreman to complete construction from. I bet that foreman just lost them. Oh! Wait. Many Bothans died. Not the 70’s, but I recently watched Terry Gilliam’s _Brazil_ ('85), and he had flat screen computer monitors–although connected to typewriter keyboards. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/708 "2015-10-22T17:32:59Z")
> [@leahcim](#): > > You can put that to the original trilogy having a 1970s idea of technology. There were some writers who had postulated something like an incipient Internet, such as Asimov’s “Multivac.” But almost no movies or TV shows picked up on anything like it until way later. At least the re-envisioned _Battlestar Galactica_ had an excuse. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/709 "2015-10-22T17:49:34Z")
> [@leahcim](#): > > The rebels stole some blueprints. It’s lucky that the Emperor had made a photocopy for the Death Star’s foreman to complete construction from. I was just thinking, since the Death Star is the size of a small moon, just how large would the hardcopy version of the blueprints have been? They must have lost the sheet for the shield to the exhaust port. ---
**Author:** ![Unpronounceable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9de0a6/32.png) [@Unpronounceable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unpronounceable)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/710 "2015-10-22T18:15:01Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > And what good would have getting the plans back been? They had FTL starships but not the cloud or internet? :dubious: The Star Wars setting has _really_ bad recordkeeping. For example, nobody even knows where/what Yoda’s homeworld is. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/711 "2015-10-22T18:50:48Z")
> [@Unpronounceable](#): > > The Star Wars setting has _really_ bad recordkeeping. For example, nobody even knows where/what Yoda’s homeworld is. Or of the very existence of Kamino. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/712 "2015-10-22T21:04:32Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > I was watching a YouTube critique of _The Phantom Menace_ and it was pointed out that in the beginning when Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon are attacked by the destroyer droids on the ship, they get away in the blink of the eye–but then they never move that fast again! > > And what good would have getting the plans back been? They had FTL starships but not the cloud or internet? :dubious: All air-gapped droids for security purposes! Of course, Vader wanted them back before copies could be made and examined for its one, glaring weakness. But hey! The Empire was on a budget. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/713 "2015-10-22T21:09:42Z")
> [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > Motti is not surprised that he _could_ do it, he was surprised that he _would_ do it. Vader was seen by the military as the Emperor’s lapdog and as subordinate to Tarkin on the Death Star. I think that’s speculative, as was my interpretation. > [@](#): > > Also, Motti kind of had a point. The Force hadn’t helped Vader do his job and he still had not gotten the stolen plans back. He just wasn’t very political to rub Vader’s face in it. I agree. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/714 "2015-10-23T00:40:36Z")
> [@Sir\_T-Cups](#): > > But that doesn’t make sense with the characters still alive. I mean, even if you wanted to say some BS about the force extending your life, it wouldn’t affect Han and Chewie. > > I mean, this saga was a multi-world battle between a Galactic Empire who was thwarted by an upstart group of random people lead by a legendary “race” of people…I’m pretty sure people would know what happened. Are we expected to believe they just forgot in the last…what?..20 years? > > My best guess is that people don’t know details, and the details that are passed around aren’t believed. But there are stories about what happened (which is a wonderful line). I get the impression that this will ignore those other three movies, so it’s in the same universe in which we know nothing about the history of the Jedi except they fought in something called the Clone Wars a generation earlier. It’s the same universe in which Jedi are so rare that even a worldly guy like Han Solo doesn’t believe the stories. And this is thirty years on from that. I don’t know if the new movie will go that route or if it will have the residents of this planet being kept deliberately ignorant, but I can buy that the general populace knows that the rebels fought the empire and won and that’s it. The Jedi are as much a legend as they were in Star Wars. Or not. We’ll see. We’ll also see if we’re looking at a worn-out Han Solo or a bored Harrison Ford. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/715 "2015-10-23T01:41:16Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > There were some writers who had postulated something like an incipient Internet, such as Asimov’s “Multivac.” But almost no movies or TV shows picked up on anything like it until way later. At least the re-envisioned _Battlestar Galactica_ had an excuse. Star Wars has an excuse, too, although obviously a retroactive one. The galactic Holonet is basically the Space Internet, but shortly after taking power, Palpatine severely limited public access to it. It’s used purely for military communications and broadcasting propaganda during the time frame of the original trilogy. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/716 "2015-10-23T01:53:53Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > I get the impression that this will ignore those other three movies, so it’s in the same universe in which we know nothing about the history of the Jedi except they fought in something called the Clone Wars a generation earlier. It’s the same universe in which Jedi are so rare that even a worldly guy like Han Solo doesn’t believe the stories. And this is thirty years on from that. Everything I’ve read about the Star Wars universe since Disney bought indicates that the prequel movies are still completely in continuity. And this has been confirmed by some of the new stuff Disney has come out with since then. _Star Wars: Rebels_ started bringing back characters from the Clone Wars cartoon last season, and looks like it’s stepping it up in season two: In last season’s finale, they brought back Ahsoka, Anakin’s apprentice, and in the season premiere last week, they introduced a bunch of retired clone troopers who had been characters in the earlier cartoon. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/717 "2015-10-23T04:14:51Z")
I don’t know if Luke would turn evil, but I could see him manipulating events to force a new generation to confront their demons and choose a side. Who knows what else Vader may have been up to besides being the emperor’s lead henchman? He did want Luke to join him, defeat the emperor and rule the galaxy. He was making plans on the side. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/718 "2015-10-23T13:21:50Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > Fodder for the Luke-is-evil theory: [here’s a clip](http://www.vulture.com/2015/10/did-hamill-sell-abrams-on-evil-luke-skywalker.html) from 10 years ago of Mark Hamill talking about how he pitched the idea to Lucas that Luke should turn bad. And sitting next to him on the panel, J.J. Abrams. Meh, I doubt Hamill has anything to do with story direction. I think enough spoilers have leaked to indicate Luke is not evil. Not that all spoilers are reliable or anything, but I just think it is unlikely. He’s far more likely to be the last remaining Jedi and end up training one(or both) of the kids from this movie. > [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Or of the very existence of Kamino. I have not watched the prequels in a long time. Didn’t Dooku, Sidious, or someone remove Kamino from the records? It’s more that no one has heard of it or noticed its disappearance. ---
**Author:** ![GESancMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gesancman/32/2923_2.png) [@GESancMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GESancMan)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/719 "2015-10-23T13:49:31Z")
I don’t think this idea has come up yet in this thread, but I don’t really feel like going over this entire thing again… Perhaps it turns out that Kylo Ren sought out Luke, who agreed to train him. Then Kylo went over to the dark side, and now Luke feels like a failure, and refuses to train anyone else. So when Rey and/or Flinn find Luke, he says “get outta here, kid.” I’m under the impression that Luke won’t show up in the film until the last few minutes. So maybe a plot point of part VIII will be convincing Luke to train the kids, for the good of the galaxy and all that. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936/720 "2015-10-23T14:00:03Z")
> [@GESancMan](#): > > I don’t think this idea has come up yet in this thread, but I don’t really feel like going over this entire thing again… > > Perhaps it turns out that Kylo Ren sought out Luke, who agreed to train him. Then Kylo went over to the dark side, and now Luke feels like a failure, and refuses to train anyone else. So when Rey and/or Flinn find Luke, he says “get outta here, kid.” > > I’m under the impression that Luke won’t show up in the film until the last few minutes. So maybe a plot point of part VIII will be convincing Luke to train the kids, for the good of the galaxy and all that. See post [#641.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18790012&postcount=641) 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936.md?page=35) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-episode-vii-anticipation-thread/666936.md?page=37)