# Star Wars isn't that good, is it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 19, 2003, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662 "2003-09-19T19:42:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![CyberPundit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@CyberPundit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CyberPundit)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/1 "2003-09-19T19:42:34Z")
I saw Star Wars a few days back for the first time in several years. I never considred the film a masterpiece but it was a lot tackier than I remembered it. It would be unfair to comment on the special effects but the acting and and dialogue are fair game and they are quite bad. Only Alec Guiness gives a good perfomance. Several of the exchanges between Hamill,Ford and Fisher are excruciating and most of the Imperial sidekicks are awful as well. . I think the last few years have raised the bar when it comes to acting and dialogue in blockbuster films. LOTR is excellent of course but even X-Men and Spiderman are better than Star Wars. In fact the recent Star Wars films , or at least AOTC, aren’t really that bad compared to the originals. It’s not so much that the Star Wars films have gotten worse but that some of the other blockbuster films have gotten better. Having said all this I wouldn’t say the original is a bad film. The basic story and characters are still memorable ; it’s just that the scene-by-scene execution is often quite poor. ---
**Author:** ![Duderdude2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cdc98d/32.png) [@Duderdude2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duderdude2)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/2 "2003-09-19T19:53:57Z")
I totally agree. I think people who grew up with Star Wars are unable to see past the rather shoddy components (not that there’s anything wrong with that). I’m not a big fan of Star Wars and never have been…except for Star Tours at Disney World, love that ride. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/3 "2003-09-19T20:10:00Z")
I am part of the heathen heritics that never really liked Star Wars. I thought the first was OK, but had already seen most of it in Dune. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/4 "2003-09-19T20:12:58Z")
The right film at the right time. Didn’t like “Citizen Kane” because it was in Black & white? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/5 "2003-09-19T20:14:02Z")
I grew up on Star Wars (was 10 in 1977) and agree: it was never a really good movie. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/6 "2003-09-19T20:16:27Z")
I loved it when I was 14, but it’s pretty thin stuff from my current perspective. It was more revolutionary in its marketing strategy than in any artistic sense. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/7 "2003-09-19T20:22:33Z")
This newspaper’s Jonathan Rosenbaum did an interesting (if a bit meanspirited) [examination](http://www.chireader.com/movies/archives/0197/01317.html): > [@](#): > > None of [the] characters has any depth, and they’re all treated like the [_sic_] fanciful props and settings–as pulp staples that keep the action going. . . . Star Wars is grounded in the short-term rewards of TV watching, where every moment tends to be equal in emotional importance to every other and where the only serious continuity is in a consistency of mild diversion rather than in a persistence of personality. This form of entertainment can only be called lite–constructed out of ersatz familiar materials meant to be admired for their momentary cuteness or for details of their design. ---
**Author:** ![McDeath\_the\_Mad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a3d4f5/32.png) [@McDeath\_the\_Mad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/McDeath_the_Mad)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/8 "2003-09-19T20:35:19Z")
I’m a fan, but I agree the acting was terrible. But I think Lucas was trying to make pulpy science fiction movies. This really pisses me off now when critics review the new Star Wars movies. They (the critics) seem to think the original trilogy were all Oscar caliber movies or something! I see no difference betwen Mark Hamill and Hayden Christensen’s acting. They are both whinny little biatches. I’m a fan of all of the Star Wars movies, but for what they are: pulpy popcorn sci-fi movies. I just wish critics and reviewers would do the same! My rant’s over… MtM ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/9 "2003-09-19T20:37:49Z")
**RELEASE THE HOUNDS!!!** 😃 Unfortunately I’ve seen it about 5,000 times and can’t really treat this subject objectively. OK, yeah, it ain’t no masterpiece, and Hamill ain’t no Olivier…but there never would _be_ any newer better blockbusters without it. It was a fun summer Sci Fi Space Opera and should be treated as such. Just not by me. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/10 "2003-09-19T20:41:38Z")
Harlan Ellison wrote a fairly scathing review of _Star Wars_ in the way-back-when… I remember agreeing with most of it when I first read it, and agreeing with pretty much all of it when I read it again a few years ago. I forget many of the specifics, but the line that sticks me most is something like (paraphrasing from memory here): “There is something wrong with a movie that makes you care more about the robots that about the people in it.” That line pretty much sums up the _Star Wars_ experience for me. They’re fun movies to watch in the right frame of mind, and I loved them as a kid. I can never remember caring much about the characters in it, though. ---
**Author:** ![DaPearl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@DaPearl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaPearl)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/11 "2003-09-19T20:58:12Z")
Harrison Ford said it best: “George [Lucas], you might be able to write this shit, but you sure as hell can’t say it,” ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/12 "2003-09-19T21:11:17Z")
I’ve always said that the original Star Wars was well _performed_. The actors had far better energy (even if the characters were more caracatures) than in either of the prequels. It was also shot well, in my opinion, and I think the overall story was very solid. Personally, I think that it just looks all the worse compared to the amount of popularity it has… if it were more obscure, people would overall have a more neutral-positive opinion of it. And, really, let’s admit it… those Star Destroyers look fuckin’ cool. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/13 "2003-09-19T21:12:11Z")
Alec Guinness hated _Star Wars_, and said so quite bluntly in his autobiography. ---
**Author:** ![Duderdude2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cdc98d/32.png) [@Duderdude2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duderdude2)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/14 "2003-09-19T21:29:23Z")
Walloon, if you don’t mind, could you or someone please elaborate on that? I’ve also heard that Carrey Fisher and Harrison Ford do not like talking about Star Wars, though Mark Hamill does (source: Kevin Smith’s commentary on Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back). Why don’t they like it; they were in it? And it’s probably what made them most famous. ---
**Author:** ![Wumpus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8c91f0/32.png) [@Wumpus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wumpus)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/15 "2003-09-19T21:52:19Z")
Star Wars’ virtues and defects are pretty much the same for me as an adult as when I was a teenager: it’s shallow as hell but fun and exhilarating. I can still watch it and enjoy it. I can no longer make it through E.T., on the other hand. On a semi-related note, I just saw the Three Musketeers and the Four Musketeers again for the first time since they first came out, and I can report they are still as much fun as when I was a kid. Again, shallow as hell, but the photography is wonderful, there are some great gags and (for the time) great fight scenes. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/16 "2003-09-19T21:59:11Z")
Hamill LOVES it; it was the high point of his career, and his life. The rest of them went on to bigger and better things. ---
**Author:** ![aaslatten](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f14d63/32.png) [@aaslatten](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aaslatten)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/17 "2003-09-19T22:03:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Walloon \* > \*\*Alec Guinness hated _Star Wars_, and said so quite bluntly in his autobiography. \*\* And of course he acts circles around the other guys in the original movie. I think Mark Hammill did a pretty good job as well, in that he actually seemed sincere. The rest of the actors were just hamming it up. ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/18 "2003-09-19T23:43:23Z")
One should also point out that Lucas provided Alec Guinness, as well as some of the other actors, a permanent share of the profits the movie made… a fraction of a percent. Guinness benefited from this. It meant he was able to spend the rest of his life doing pretty much the kind of work he thought was meaningful, as opposed to having to scrape on occasion because he needed money. The same is true of Mark Hammill. Hell, if I had a fraction of a percent of all the money the movie made, I’m not sure I’d ever want to attend another cattle call audition again. Plainly, Harrison Ford felt a little differently. Then again, his double hits with “Star Wars” and “Raiders Of The Lost Ark” pretty much made sure he’d never have to. As to the quality of the movie – well, first of all, it was never intended to be a classic for the ages. It was intended as good, pulpy fun. The fact is, it went gorilla because there had never been anything like it before. Before Star Wars, everyone’s idea of “science fiction” had been either “Star Trek” or the postapocalypse scenario of the week, usually involving talking apes. And you’ll notice that the “Star Trek” movie never got off the ground until “Star Wars” went bughouse at the box office. Is it “Citizen Kane?” No. But it’s pop culture, it’s pulp action fun, and it’s certainly culturally significant, both in and of itself, and for the horrors it wrought upon us in its exploration of the world of marketing… ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/19 "2003-09-19T23:43:35Z")
One should also point out that Lucas provided Alec Guinness, as well as some of the other actors, a permanent share of the profits the movie made… a fraction of a percent. Guinness benefited from this. It meant he was able to spend the rest of his life doing pretty much the kind of work he thought was meaningful, as opposed to having to scrape on occasion because he needed money. The same is true of Mark Hammill. Hell, if I were an actor, and had a fraction of a percent of all the money the movie made, I’m not sure I’d ever want to attend another cattle call audition again. Plainly, Harrison Ford felt a little differently. Then again, his double hits with “Star Wars” and “Raiders Of The Lost Ark” pretty much made sure he’d never have to. As to the quality of the movie – well, first of all, it was never intended to be a classic for the ages. It was intended as good, pulpy fun. The fact is, it went gorilla because there had never been anything like it before. Before Star Wars, everyone’s idea of “science fiction” had been either “Star Trek” or the postapocalypse scenario of the week, usually involving talking apes. And you’ll notice that the “Star Trek” movie never got off the ground until “Star Wars” went bughouse at the box office. Is it “Citizen Kane?” No. But it’s pop culture, it’s pulp action fun, and it’s certainly culturally significant, both in and of itself, and for the horrors it wrought upon us in its exploration of the world of marketing… ---
**Author:** ![Murcielago](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/da6949/32.png) [@Murcielago](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Murcielago)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/20 "2003-09-20T00:12:48Z")
Certainly the move is no _Godfather_ or _Taxi Driver_, IMO _Jaws_ has held up better with age. I was still in the womb when it was released, so I don’t understand the culture at the time and how it tapped in so effectively. That said, I admire the pacing of the original. That movie flies by in what seems like about half an hour, though it imparts a great deal of information about the characters and their struggle. It does this using standard character archetypes, but it works. I think Han Solo was a very important character, as he was a hook into the movie for the audience. He was the one observing all the surrounding activity with a WTF? attitude which gave us a break from the Jedi mythology. That kind of character is sorely lacking in Eps. 1 & 2. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662.md?page=2)