# Star Wars isn't that good, is it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 19, 2003, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662 "2003-09-19T19:42:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sanscour](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f475e1/32.png) [@Sanscour](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sanscour)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/21 "2003-09-20T00:25:48Z")
I am a star wars fan and I always will be. Having said that, I think I got jaded on Star Wars when Lucas put the latest and greatest version into theatres. My thoughts coming out were, “Christ, Lucas, if it isn’t broken don’t fucking fix it.” It just looked really really BAD. Overall I think the reason the movie didn’t flop was not only being in the right place at the right time, but also the characters had a certain amount of chemistry together and, to an extent, by themselves. As for Hamil, he’s not exactly a one hit wonder. He’s done some other interesting work. I thought he was great as the Trickster when The Flash was still on TV, and he also does the voice of the Joker in the Batman cartoons. And of course he was funny as hell as Cock Knocker in Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back. But yes, being the whiney as hell Luke Skywalker was the pinnacle of his career. If you want to see some REAL Star Wars bashing that’s very entertaining, watch Thumb Wars. “Bad is bad! Good is Good! Bad bad good bad! Good bad good good bad good bad…good.” Sanscour ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/22 "2003-09-20T00:58:05Z")
I love the movies (the first three). I still react with surprise to hear people are only recently discovering that they aren’t particularly good. Consider: “That wizard’s just a crazy old man.” “Do you think a princess and a guy like me…?” “It’s the ship that made the Kessel Run in less than twelve parsecs.” “If there’s a bright center to the universe, you’re on the planet that it’s farthest from.” The writing in the first was **awful.** Also, _Return of the Jedi_ had three, count 'em, three burp jokes in the first 30 minutes. Three! Three. **Three.** And people seemed shocked to see Jar Jar Binks in Episode I. Come on, didn’t you guys **watch** the other movies? Wow… three. FISH ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Rieux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Dr.Rieux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Rieux)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/23 "2003-09-20T00:59:09Z")
Mark Hamill is also the voice of Larry 3000 on _Time Squad_. IMHO, _Empire_ still holds up better than the other two. ---
**Author:** ![unwashed\_brain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/a9adbd/32.png) [@unwashed\_brain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unwashed_brain)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/24 "2003-09-20T01:24:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Murcielago \* > \*\* I think Han Solo was a very important character, as he was a hook into the movie for the audience. He was the one observing all the surrounding activity with a WTF? attitude which gave us a break from the Jedi mythology. That kind of character is sorely lacking in Eps. 1 & 2. \*\* **GREAT** point, Murcielago!!! I could never quite put my finger on what [else :D] was missing in Episodes 1 & 2, but you’ve provided me with the answer. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/25 "2003-09-20T01:55:00Z")
> [@](#): > > It would be unfair to comment on the special effects And when have you seen a science fiction movie with better special effects? What we see in the original Star Wars movies is a heck of a lot better than the new ones, or any incarnation of Star Trek. Yeah, they’re low tech. But what does that matter? They _work_. ---
**Author:** ![CyberPundit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@CyberPundit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CyberPundit)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/26 "2003-09-20T02:04:09Z")
Well, I think effects in the recent movies are far richer. Compare the bar scenes in AOTC with ANH. Or the incredibly detailed cityscapes. And I find most of the space-fights in ANH far too phony-looking by today’s standards to be effective. ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/27 "2003-09-20T02:17:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by unwashed brain \* > \*\ ***GREAT** point, Murcielago!!! > > I could never quite put my finger on what [else :D] was missing in Episodes 1 & 2, but you’ve provided me with the answer. Thanks! \*\* I was just about to post that! Well said, **Murcielago**. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/28 "2003-09-20T02:45:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Khadaji \* > \*\*I am part of the heathen heritics that never really liked Star Wars. I thought the first was OK, but had already seen most of it in Dune. \*\* Dune came out after Star Wars. Seven years after. Maybe you knew that, but I’m curious as to how you saw Dune before Star Wars. Today I still like Star Wars, but it really is for its camp factor. However, when it first came out it was the shit. Everybody went to see it. The word of mouth that the movie got was astonishing. My parents took the family to see it based on what friends had told them. Plus, nobody had ever seen anything like it. Sure, 2001 had some great shots of ships and that space station, but the battle for the Death Star involved FX that were in a class by themselves. In fact, I wonder if ILM would exist if Star Wars had bombed. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/29 "2003-09-20T03:08:28Z")
> [@](#): > > Compare the bar scenes in AOTC with ANH. Or the incredibly detailed cityscapes. And I find most of the space-fights in ANH far too phony-looking by today’s standards to be effective. I disagree: I think the space shots hold up fine. On the other hand, consider that Lucas used all his newfound CGI power to make hammy shlock: which is most apparent in the crappy additions made to the first trilogy. ---
**Author:** ![Muldoon\_s\_Squishiness](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/13edae/32.png) [@Muldoon\_s\_Squishiness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muldoon_s_Squishiness)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/30 "2003-09-20T03:59:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chronos \* > \*\*And when have you seen a science fiction movie with better special effects? \*\* **2001: A Space Odyssey** still blows **Star Wars** out of the water and it was filmed **10 years** before **Star Wars** opened. ---
**Author:** ![ResIpsaLoquitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b3f665/32.png) [@ResIpsaLoquitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ResIpsaLoquitor)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/31 "2003-09-20T04:14:01Z")
We are talking JUST _Star Wars_ as a bad film? With that, I’d agree, at least to the extent that it didn’t try to be deep. _Empire_, on the other hand, was a GREAT film. You can’t get writing better than: Leia: “I love you!” Han: “I know!” He’s a complete ass AND a complete romantic in the same moment. I love it. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/32 "2003-09-20T04:14:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dooku \* > \*\ ***RELEASE THE HOUNDS!!!** 😃 > Unfortunately I’ve seen it about 5,000 times and can’t really treat this subject objectively. OK, yeah, it ain’t no masterpiece, and Hamill ain’t no Olivier…but there never would _be_ any newer better blockbusters without it. > > It was a fun summer Sci Fi Space Opera and should be treated as such. Just not by me. 🙂 \*\* YES!!! And what **Sanscour** said about Mark Hamill. Plus, say what you will, he’s a genuinely NICE guy, and a decent individual. He’s also done a lot on Broadway, in order to be with his family, and he’s pretty HAPPY. And that’s what counts, right? Look at all the problems Fisher and Ford have had over the years? And for what it’s worth, Hamill agrees with **Murcielago** about the prequels not having a Han type cynic. I agree, it’s cheesy, but it’s FUN! I’m a major, and I do mean MAJOR SW geek. Oh, and anyone who disses Ewan McGregor is first up against the wall when the revolution comes! ---
**Author:** ![Drastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Drastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drastic)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/33 "2003-09-20T04:26:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CyberPundit \* > \*\*Well, I think effects in the recent movies are far richer. Compare the bar scenes in AOTC with ANH. Or the incredibly detailed cityscapes. And I find most of the space-fights in ANH far too phony-looking by today’s standards to be effective. \*\* I don’t think there’s any question that they’re a lot more eye-catching. But personally, I think they’ve been implemented with a lot less craft. In many scenes in AOTC, I was often thinking the actors looked entirely out of place in front of all the pretty cg. Mind you, I also think the YodaFight bit would have been far better if Yoda hadn’t been a hyperkinetic bouncing green superball, but had instead fought most of it standing utterly still, deflecting increasingly frantic Dooku-blows merely with his muppet-mind powers. (“I don’t believe it!” Dooku would cry out. “That is why you are failing,” Yoda says, all smug-like, before mentally throwing him into a wall.) But topically, yeah–none of the films have been very good. I still maintain it’s nowhere near simple nostalgia that makes the original trilogy much more entertaining than the latter. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/34 "2003-09-20T04:32:31Z")
Adam Yax– Word of mouth means next to nothing. Look at Clerks and Kevin Smith… people talk that crap up too. Then again, most people are morons. Sorry, just going by the numbers. Not EVERYONE… but MOST people are in fact, knuckle-draggers. ---
**Author:** ![Gadfly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/aeb1de/32.png) [@Gadfly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadfly)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/35 "2003-09-20T04:36:44Z")
> [@](#): > > Look at Clerks and Kevin Smith… people talk that crap up too. Did you just insult the man who made Clerks and Dogma? What you need is paint thinner. In both eyes. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/36 "2003-09-20T04:37:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wang-Ka \* > \*\*One should also point out that Lucas provided Alec Guinness, as well as some of the other actors, a permanent share of the profits the movie made… a fraction of a percent. > > Guinness benefited from this. It meant he was able to spend the rest of his life doing pretty much the kind of work he thought was meaningful, as opposed to having to scrape on occasion because he needed money. The same is true of Mark Hammill.\*\* Someone in Hollywood got a percentage of the profits and got paid? Pull the other one. ---
**Author:** ![Duderdude2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cdc98d/32.png) [@Duderdude2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duderdude2)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/37 "2003-09-20T04:48:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Muldoon’s Squishiness \* > \*\ ***2001: A Space Odyssey** still blows **Star Wars** out of the water and it was filmed **10 years** before **Star Wars** opened. \*\* I would like to second this. ---
**Author:** ![CyberPundit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@CyberPundit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CyberPundit)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/38 "2003-09-20T04:50:41Z")
“But personally, I think they’ve been implemented with a lot less craft” I think that’s true of many of the fight scenes where Lucas just appered to throw a bunch of stuff at each other with little purpose. I thought a lot of the urban background was terrific though and I rather liked the Yoda/Dooku fight. BTW those of you who say that Star Wars is just a popcorn flick are right of course but there is no reason why such films can’t have decent acting and direction. Once again LOTR manages to be a successful blockbuster as well as a well-crafted film. One scene in particular illustrates the difference in quality between the two series: the reaction to the fall of Gandalf and Obi-Wan. See the way in which Jackson uses cinemaphotgraphy, sound and music to heighten the drama and compare it to the Star Wars scene which is pure cliche. Compare Frodo’s “Noooo!” to Luke’s. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/39 "2003-09-20T04:54:35Z")
From the perspective of May, 1977: I saw _Star Wars_ opening day. The matinee. I had refused to read any reviews because I wanted it to be entirely new. I put on my “May the force be with you” button they gave me at the door (so rare now I can’t find it in collectibles price lists), plunked down in my seat, and opened my eyes wide. The “Long ago…” scroll was dopey. Princess Leia’s ship was impressive, comparable to _2001_. Then the Star Destroyer kept getting bigger and bigger and BIGGER. I was blown out of my seat and through the back of the theater. After that it could’ve turned into a musical with an all-robot review and I wouldn’t have cared. I loved it with an intensity I had never felt. Yeah, the acting was lousy and the script sucked but the special effects were bleeding edge, worlds beyond anything else (remember how little of _2001_ was really effects) that I had ever seen. ---
**Author:** ![CyberPundit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@CyberPundit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CyberPundit)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/40 "2003-09-20T05:06:09Z")
I have to amend my previous post. I didn’t mean to agree that the fight scenes in AOTC are worse compared to ANH. The latter has some really lame fight scenes IMO . For one thing the way the soldiers run and hold their guns is far too slack and unconvincing. The big fight scene between Darth and Obi-wan was completely lacking in energy as well. I thought the Yoda/Dooku fight was a lot better actually. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662.md?page=3)