# Star Wars isn't that good, is it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 19, 2003, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662 "2003-09-19T19:42:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![MrSarcasticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b487fb/32.png) [@MrSarcasticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrSarcasticus)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/41 "2003-09-20T05:09:39Z")
I’m actually surprised anyone went to see STAR WARS. Have you seen the original trailers? They look like it’s a cheap dubbed Italian B-movie. ---
**Author:** ![Muldoon\_s\_Squishiness](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/13edae/32.png) [@Muldoon\_s\_Squishiness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muldoon_s_Squishiness)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/42 "2003-09-20T05:13:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dropzone \* > \*\*(remember how little of _2001_ was really effects) \*\* **Right.** :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Except for all of the spaceship scenes, including interiors, the various landing/docking sequences, the whole Frank Poole EVA incident, the Dave Bowman attempted rescue /return to the ship/ final confrontation with the monolith, the 15 psychedelic show that Bowman sees after he enters the monolith, the space baby embyo and don’t forget the apes. But aside from that, there weren’t any special effects. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/43 "2003-09-20T05:33:54Z")
Out of a very long movie just a couple minutes were effects like in Star Wars, using miniatures, in which an attempt was made to create a reality. The interiors were sets. Full-size sets. A REAL big one so they could have Bowman jog. The light show was just that–a light show. The apes were guys in ape suits–nothing we hadn’t seen in _Africa Screams_–and the bizarre Pleistocene herbivores were tapirs. Watch it again. Much of Kubrick’s genius was convincing you that most of what you were seeing was real and futuristic and not on the technical level of an episode of Dr Who. ---
**Author:** ![MrSarcasticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b487fb/32.png) [@MrSarcasticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrSarcasticus)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/44 "2003-09-20T05:36:45Z")
Say what you will, 2001 will always be considered a dull movie, unless you’re high. Not so, STAR WARS. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/45 "2003-09-20T05:52:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dropzone \* > \*\*Watch it again. Much of Kubrick’s genius was convincing you that most of what you were seeing was real and futuristic and not on the technical level of an episode of Dr Who. \*\* Don’t you go dissin’ Dr. Who! Release the Daleks!! EXTERMINATE!!! ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/46 "2003-09-20T06:09:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wang-Ka \* > \*\* Before Star Wars, everyone’s idea of “science fiction” had been either “Star Trek” \*\* Yea, plot driven stories, about real characters. Thank god Star Wars rescued us from that. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Muldoon\_s\_Squishiness](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/13edae/32.png) [@Muldoon\_s\_Squishiness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muldoon_s_Squishiness)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/47 "2003-09-20T07:03:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dropzone \* > \*\* The apes were guys in ape suits–nothing we hadn’t seen in \*Africa Screams[/i \*\* Actually they were utterly and completely different. Unlike the obviously fake suits in **Africa Screams** in **2001** they looked completely natural, right down to the mannerisms. ---
**Author:** ![Duderdude2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cdc98d/32.png) [@Duderdude2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duderdude2)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/48 "2003-09-20T07:17:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dropzone \* > \*\*Out of a very long movie just a couple minutes were effects like in Star Wars, using miniatures, in which an attempt was made to create a reality. The interiors were sets. Full-size sets. A REAL big one so they could have Bowman jog. The light show was just that–a light show. The apes were guys in ape suits–nothing we hadn’t seen in _Africa Screams_–and the bizarre Pleistocene herbivores were tapirs. > > \*\* I too can go scene by scene through Star Wars and provide my analysis of each individual segment and attempt to make it appear inferior to what it really was, but I won’t as it has little point. You do realize that several of the “full-size” sets utilized in 2001 had to be fully rotated? Last time I checked, that classified as a special effect. The light show was more than “just a light show” as anyone who’s read anything about 2001 would know. The space ship models were represented quite frequently, and just because they’re not as numerous in numbers as Star Wars does not make them inferior. Also, did you realize that the “Ape Suit” scene was filmed entirely on a sound stage with the backgrounds being represented via a new method introduced by 2001? That also classifies as a special effect. How about the weightlessness scenes? Those too are special effects. It’s insulting that your definition of special effects apparently only applies to models and claymation. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/49 "2003-09-20T08:29:30Z")
> [@](#): > > Yea, plot driven stories, about real characters. Plot driven?!? REAL characters?!? “Oh no! An alien that looks, acts, and talks like Zeus has imprisoned us with his Lightning Ray! Let’s get Kirk to sleep with his wife and judo-chop the back of his head!” Please. Star Trek played out like an unfunny Austin Powers gag. Star Wars had the action, solid plot, and sense of majesty (like Trogdor!). ---
**Author:** ![Sanscour](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f475e1/32.png) [@Sanscour](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sanscour)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/50 "2003-09-20T09:39:13Z")
Don’t dis Trogdor **SPOOFE** or I will see to it you suffer in an eternity of BURNINATION!!! Sanscour ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/51 "2003-09-20T09:55:22Z")
I think what really killed Star Wars for me was the fans - c’mon, people, it’s just a movie! Do you really have to dress like Chewbacca to show the world you like the thing? Do you really have to light into me for my “failure” to call the stupid movies by their “real names?” What sort of person goes into detail about the “technical specs” of a “spaceship” that is nothing more than a model on a piece of string? That’s akin to writing a book about auto repair using information gleaned from my little girls’ [Fisher Price Little People Ramps around Garage](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000096PNA/002-1476956-2451244?v=glance). :rolleyes: In short, the movies are OK, it’s just the fans that ruined it. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/52 "2003-09-20T14:07:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by adam yax \* > \*\*Dune came out after Star Wars. Seven years after. Maybe you knew that, but I’m curious as to how you saw Dune before Star Wars. > > \*\* Dune the movie sucked. What I meant, and possibly said badly, was there was little that was original in the Star Wars movie that I hadn’t seen in the classic book Dune written by Frank Herbert and first published by Ace in 1965.[Dune](http://www.arrakis.co.uk/dune8.html) ---
**Author:** ![Wumpus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8c91f0/32.png) [@Wumpus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wumpus)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/53 "2003-09-20T14:41:01Z")
Dropzone, “convincing you that most of what you were seeing was real and futuristic and not on the technical level of an episode of Dr Who” is the very definition of special effects. It’s _all_ sleight of hand to convince you that what you’re looking at isn’t just painted cardboard or a laytex mask or a bunch of triangles on a computer. That applies to Star Wars as much as 2001. That notion that “only a couple of minutes” of 2001 are model shots isn’t correct either. The space station docking scene alone is longer than that. Without 2001 there would have been no Star Wars, because it was 2001 that pioneered many of the methods Star Wars would later use. Lucas and company also used 2001 to convince the studio that modern special effects were capable of far more than toy spaceships on strings with sparklers in them. And Star Wars effects supervisor John Dykstra started his career working for 2001 effects wizard Douglas Trumbull (on Trumbull’s 1972 movie Silent Running.) ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/54 "2003-09-20T15:29:16Z")
> [@](#): > > That kind of character is sorely lacking in Eps. 1 & 2. Yeah, but one just didn’t really belong in there. Sure, it might have made the movie “better”, but it also just didn’t work in context of the theme of the movie. ---
**Author:** ![Muldoon\_s\_Squishiness](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/13edae/32.png) [@Muldoon\_s\_Squishiness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muldoon_s_Squishiness)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2003, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/55 "2003-09-21T00:06:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MrSarcasticus \* > \*\*Say what you will, 2001 will always be considered a dull movie, \*\* It’s your own damn fault that you have the attention span of a box of saltines, not mine. Just because **2001** didn’t have a lot of bright shiny noises or flashy explosions does not make it a dull movie by any stech of the imagination. But that’s probably where your problem lies, you have no imagination. ---
**Author:** ![unwashed\_brain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/a9adbd/32.png) [@unwashed\_brain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unwashed_brain)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2003, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/56 "2003-09-21T01:20:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Muldoon’s Squishiness \* > **It’s your own damn fault that you have the attention span of a box of saltines, not mine.** I don’t see where he was blaming anyone for the movie being dull. “Because he thought the movie was dull, he must have a short attention span. What has a short attention span? A box of saltines! (because it is inanimate and CAN’T HAVE an attention span!!!)” \<----Nice! > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Muldoon’s Squishiness \* > **Just because 2001 didn’t have a lot of bright shiny noises or flashy explosions does not make it a dull movie by any stech of the imagination.** He never said why he thought it was dull…how kind of you to share his thoughts with us. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Muldoon’s Squishiness \* > \*\*But that’s probably where your problem lies, you have no imagination. \*\* He has a problem because he doesn’t agree with you on a matter of a completely subjective nature? You’re right - he must not have an imagination. Thanks for your contribution to The Board, **Muldoon’s Squishiness**!!! ---
**Author:** ![Duderdude2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cdc98d/32.png) [@Duderdude2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duderdude2)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2003, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/57 "2003-09-21T02:28:15Z")
I never got why people defend other random people on the internet. I’m impartial to most arguements which do not directly concern me. I’m sure MrSarcasticus can defend himself perfectly wel,l Unwashed Brain. ---
**Author:** ![Duderdude2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cdc98d/32.png) [@Duderdude2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duderdude2)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2003, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/58 "2003-09-21T02:29:33Z")
Sorry about the typos. My wireless keyboard’s batteries are dying. ---
**Author:** ![Duderdude2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cdc98d/32.png) [@Duderdude2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duderdude2)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2003, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/59 "2003-09-21T02:34:18Z")
Furthermore, Unwashed Brain appeared to be speaking for everybody when he provided his statement, (“Say what you will, 2001 will always be considered a dull movie”), thus I do not feel Muldoon’s Squishiness was entirely unjust in his actions. ---
**Author:** ![unwashed\_brain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/a9adbd/32.png) [@unwashed\_brain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unwashed_brain)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2003, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662/60 "2003-09-21T02:51:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duderdude2 \* > \*\*I never got why people defend other random people on the internet. I’m impartial to most arguements which do not directly concern me. I’m sure MrSarcasticus can defend himself perfectly wel,l Unwashed Brain. \*\* It’s more like I am attacking (what I feel are) a flawed set of assumptions than defending an individual. That’s about as far as I want to take my arguments outside of The Pit. \ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-isnt-that-good-is-it/202662.md?page=4)